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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would it be feasible to do a carburetor conversion for the K1200S?
I simply prefer Carburetors to EFI. I’m not sure if one can simply throw a carburetor on top of the intake, and if there are carburetors that would fit natively, or carburetors that can be made to fit well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Really? Tell us please how a carburetor could be tuned to work with pump gas and a 13.0:1 compression ratio. Don't forget to include being able to ride from sea level to over 10,000 feet without rejetting.
EFI is for people content to live in a simulation. Carburetors are the real deal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
WTF are you smoking!?

I'm an ASE L1 certified Master mechanic and engine builder with an automotive engineering degree and a computer science degree with 40 years experience under my belt....And you're stating that carburetors are more Superior than fuel injection?

Before you post anymore do your research.
What makes you think I'm stating anything else?
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
No. I'm 100% serious.

Carburetors are superior to fuel injection. I don't know if it's feasible to put one on a K1200S, which is very unfortunate, because EFI is awful. Carburetors weren't discontinued for reasons of fuel economy, power/performance, cold starts, or even tailpipe emissions.

Carburetors were banned because the fuel from the float bowls evaporates into the atmosphere when the engine sits, and regulators had this gaga fit about gasoline vapors being the worst thing ever in the world.

So much so did they have this fit that it's the same reason again why some states have those ridiculously stupid fuel pumps at gas stations that are a total pain in the ass. The ones where you have to fight to get the thing to pump gas.

It's also same reason why you can't buy a normal fuel canister anymore, but have to get one with some mechanism to stop the fuel vapors escaping (more on this later).*

It's really important to remember that carburetors were NOT discontinued. They were used in production bikes right up until the inevitable EPA ban in 2009 or whenever. They were NOT discontinued for reasons of performance, reliability, efficiency, or, even tailpipe emissions (I think I'm right in saying).

EFI is not an inherently superior technology to carburetors. A carburetor is an analog computer, capable of instantaneous processing AND implementation of information. There has been this very pretty picture painted by the industry that fuel injection is simply a single fuel injector. See here:

Automotive tire Font Audio equipment Bicycle part Auto part


What's wrong with this picture is that in order for a fuel injector to do what a carburetor does, it also requires:
A camshaft position sensor
An Airflow Meter
A fuel pump
A manifold pressure meter or Airflow Sensor
Probably a barometer
And then finally an ECU
Of course you also need the wiring for everything
Also all of these things need to sit in the worst environment you can think of for anything electronic.
Also you need 12v of power or nothing will start.
Oh and it has to handle voltage fluctuations of the worst sort.

But none of this is for actual performance improvements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I thought of some more things EFI needs:
Secondary air injection for when it's cold
Oxygen sensors
Oxygen sensor heaters
preloaded lookup tables
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Eh? I know there is opinion, and I do respect yours, but pretty much the entire automotive/ICE industry would disagree with you. For scientific and emissions reasons.
Please enlighten!!

I disagree with the entire automotive/ICE industry on this.

At the very least for bikes. If they had put even 1/10th the effort/research into carburetors they put into stupid EFI, we would have absolutely incredible carburetors. I don't think there has been a carbureted bike with a catalytic converter. This would solve literally all tailpipe emissions issues. It would not solve the oh-so-scary and pointless gas evaporating issue that is the reason carburetors were even discontinued in the first place (not performance, fuel economy, tailpipe emissions, or anything else, it bears repeating)

See above all the shit that's actually required to get EFI to work, and then look at the myriad of posts on this forum about people having EFI issues; although they don't recognize it as EFI issues. They make posts like "oh this sensor issue, need a booster plug, need an O2 sensor, need power commander, need tune, need PhD in Computer Science to make it work, etc. etc. etc.". Somehow we've made bikes that can't do hot starts, but nobody actually attributes this to a fuel injection problem "oh it's a sensor issue". Pfff.

This isn't in any way better than what carburetors offered except maybe cold starts. I'm pretty sure the late model Japanese bikes that still had carburetors had electronically adjustable carburetors for altitude, The Yamaha YZF600R and Kawasaki ZZR600.

Also NOTHING fuel injected can match that analog throttle response you get from a carburetor. NOTHING. People content with EFI are people content to live in a simulation. Blue pill. With carburetors, you pick up on the tiniest nuances of your engine. You become one. It's 100% a thing, and it's TRAGIC that whole generation of people will never understand just how fantastic carburetors are because they have swallowed the fuel injection propaganda. What's even more tragic, the throttle response could be even better, but the EPA nixxed that on carbs because they hate happiness. My friend's jet ski has little dump valves that pour gasoline directly into the intake whenever you squeeze the throttle quickly. This ensures instantaneous throttle response. Of course this fuel isn't metered, so some lunatic bureaucrat at the EPA had their head explode on them when they found out about this, and once they put his head back together, they promptly neutered the carburetors in jet skis after like the year 2000.

Of course all this would be solved by sticking a catalytic converter on there, but nobody in the inudstry did that for some reason. Also, in the real world EFI doesn't actually solve this problem, because the first thing cockspurter-riding wing-chung first-bike teenager does is bankrupt themselves by sticking an aftermarket exhaust on their bike, and then not having enough money to spend the ridiculous $500 or whatever it takes to make the bike not shit unburned gasoline out the back. GO GOVERNMENT!

It's actually tragic that all bikes are now saddled with this stupid technology which is great for like ships or trucks, but I'm dubious on cars and Bikes with EFI shouldn't have ever been brought into existence.
Just thinking about the prospect of a carbureted K1200S/K1300S has me purring like a cat, although to pull it off to the standards BMW could if they and the German government hadn't drunk the EFI propaganda cool-aid, is likely impossible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Did you find a workable solution? Probably had to fashion something I figure. Sorry it's off topic.....just curious....
Take the shotgun apart into two pieces, fold the case over, strap it on the back seat orthogonal to the line of the bike.
I didn't want to take the shotgun apart at first, but it's actually really easy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
If you disagree with the entire industry, how can you be sure you're 100% right?
Which expert validated your assertion? Is it the voices? Or maybe David Icke?
Carburetors were phased out by asinine regulatory requirements, not the motorcycle or automotive industry. Putting EFI on bikes is fucking stupid.

There is an old Mercedes V8 with mechanical fuel pump that has a throttle response similar to a carburetor. Apparently it is terrible on fuel, but when you send it, it sends.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
There is a bit of a tone to how you say it.
In short, you don't express it as an opinion. And infers that everyone else is wrong/stupid etc, including thousands of people with degrees, masters and PhDs in this and related subject matters, and/or with decades of knowledge each.
Surely some give here?
You're right. If it weren't forced and asinine, I wouldn't be so bitter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
I had shit gas mileage (30mpg) since I got the bike until I upgraded the clutch cushion springs, allowing me to for the first time ever get 36mpg. I assume it threw the sensor out of whack, and that caused my EFI to run non-optimally.

A carburetor wouldn't have suffered from this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 · (Edited)
…There is an old Mercedes V8 with mechanical fuel pump that has a throttle response similar to a carburetor. Apparently it is terrible on fuel, but when you send it, it sends

???
The Mercedes M100 V8 engine. They put it into the ridiculous grosser, as well as the 300 SEL. IT uses a mechanical fuel injection pump system, apparently it's ridiculously complicated to work on, however it offers better throttle response than pretty much any engine today.

I can't find the original video that specifically talks about it, but this video gives you an idea:

Here's Jay Leno talking about his 300SEL:

at 8:35 he mentions how it pulls unlike any other mercedes-benz, but chaulks it off to nostalgia. It's actually the mechanical fuel injection which, when asked, sends.

EFI is for people content to live in a simulation. Digital anything sacrifices temporal resolution for whatever else engineers might want. It's not for bikes.


Once you've converted it please tell us how the consumption and performance compares (and the cost and time expended, of course). I suspect we'll all be genuinely interested if you do go for it.
A carburetor conversion isn't feasible. It would have to be developed in house by BMW, and that requires changing laws made by retards, and convincing a brainwashed population to spit out their cool-aid, and trying to reason with environmental lunatics who's idea of being reasonable is not self-immolating during workdays.

I'm still curious about the feasibility.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Having lived with a 1966 BSA Spitfire with Amal GP carbs (later changed to Amal Concentrics with only low end improvement), and a 1965 Norton P11 with a K2F Magneto, I awake from my dreams about those cycles with a prayer of thanks for the K1300S.
Up until you have nightmares about some sensor going out.

I choose not to live in the matrix, even if they have steak and wine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
I don't get it- do you actually hate your bike? It really does feel like it. Just sell your fuel injected nightmare if you don't like what it represents/technology contained within!
It's a love/hate thing.

No I do not hate my bike, I hate the industry. If BMW had made this bike carbureted from the factory, it would be like the lord himself had created a motorcycle.
 
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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Perhaps write to BMW. You never know. Tell them to make a K1600R at the same time...
It's not just BMW either. They couldn't legally make and sell a modern carbureted bike because of idiot rules pushed forth by an idiot public.
 
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