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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone,

This weekend has been very crappy. I visited the BMW dealership and was interested in the K1200R. After some discussion, the salesman offered I ride the demo bike and test it out myself. I signed the release form, and off I go on the bike.

A tight turn, new tires, and a wet rode made me lowside the bike. I am not injured thank God, just a couple of scratches and a bruise. However, the bike is damaged beyond what you would expect for a lowside.

The dealer says cost of repair is $11.5k, which makes the bike totalled. If you exclude repairs for cosmetic damage, then the cost is lower.

I do not have collision insurance. Both the dealer and I are in a very sticky situation, but we are working together to figure out a solution.

Anyone know what I should do? Have you heard of similar experiences?

Be careful with these demo bikes!
 

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Maestro de Turismo
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Where do you live?

Yusuf, it would be very helpful if you provided more details on yourlself in the profile section.

Without knowing what country you live in, or where within that country, it is difficult for anyone to give you much help since your situation probably has a significant legal component to it and laws differ in each country and often within each region of the country.

For example, in Spain you would not have a problem as the demo bike is insured by the dealership - its part of the operating costs of the business (at least that is my understanding).

Post some more information on yourself and you might get better help. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Answer to your question

Hey Hdf, I'm in Washington, USA. The dealer says they do have insurance, with a $5000 deductible. But their insurance company may go after my insurance company, and if that fails, go after me.
 

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yusuf said:
Hey Hdf, I'm in Washington, USA. The dealer says they do have insurance, with a $5000 deductible. But their insurance company may go after my insurance company, and if that fails, go after me.
Do you even have any form of motorcycle insurance? We know it is not required in Washington State.
 

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Deal Carefully

NOT A LAWYER-BUT

Deal carefully. Speak carefully. The dealership may have a liability claim against you which your insurance-auto, cycle, home, professional - may or may not cover. Your liability may or may not be clear - demo bike risks and such can fall entirely on the seller or not.

Seek local info from library, internet, your insurance company, etc. Make no promises and tell no lies.
 

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Best money you can spend right now is on a lawyer. Take any insurance papers you may have and go talk to one. In Arizona most are free to 150 bucks for an hour of consultation. Best money you can spend.You cant play the game if you dont know the rules.And if you owe money to dealer or his insurance company,make arrangements to pay it. Dont blow smoke up their ass and honour what ever deal you make. I find it hard to believe the dealer would let you take it for a ride if your or his insurance wouldnt cover it. But then I dont think I would have taken it for a ride if I didnt know it was covered or not, point being, I see both dealer and you at fault. This cant be the first time this has happened and a good, hell even a poor lawyer can guide you. Good luck!
 

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You must get a lawyer... I can see several areas where the dealer was negligent. Wet roads and new tires come too mind.. maybe the dealer shouldn't have let you test ride the bike under those conditions. But get a lawyer.
 

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Join the "Pre-Paid Legal Casualty" program. It'll cost you less than $20/month and they will put you in contact with a local attorney in your area who will a ton of work for you with NO charge other than your monthly membership fee. This includes advice and a letters, but they won't represent you in court (they'll refer you to another attorney who will discount his rates to you). You can contact their national office at (800) 654-7757.

Dude, you need an attorney in this mess; don't go try representing yourself or the bottom-dwelling insurance attorneys that represent the dealers insurance company are going to eat you alive.
 

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P.S. You might also want to let all your insurance companies know, as well, particularly your vehicle insurance. If they feel the dealer's insurance company might come after them, your insurance attorneys will have to include you in representing their own company.

P.P.S. Keep your mouth shut and don't talk to anyone at the dealership or their insurance company, etc. Anything you say can/will be used against you.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks

Thanks a lot for your answers. I will heed your advice. I do have insurance but not collision insurance. Will let you know the final outcome. Please let me know if there is anything else I should do/know.

Thanks!
 

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Twice

Y,

Twice now you've mentioned collision insurance. That has, probably, no bearing on the matter. You are 'liable' for damages under the liability part of your policy(s). It is possible to research and determine for yourself just when to get an attorney, but I think sooner rather than later is the better course given your understanding of the situation.

Collision coverage does not apply here.

M
 

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What you should do is walk into the dealership tomorrow, hand over a check for $11,500 and say "I'm terribly sorry I wrecked your bike. My attorney will contact you and will advise us about how to get the best possible result from the insurers".

I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck (and the dealer's) and I sincerely hope that this all turns out as well as it can for you. But, you are the one who took the bike out (one of the most powerful bikes on earth...certainly you knew that) without a clear idea of who was responsible for what, you operated it imprudently, and you wrecked it. Now you get to show folks that you are a gentleman. You can rationalize all you want, and I'm sure that lots of folks will suggest novel ways to do it (e.g. it was the dealer's fault for letting you take the bike with "new" tires). Situations like these provide an opportunity to show people what kind of guy you really are. Don't disappoint.

Try to look at the bright side..you're probably going to wind up with an almost new bike.
 

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BillA said:
What you should do is walk into the dealership tomorrow, hand over a check for $11,500 and say "I'm terribly sorry I wrecked your bike. My attorney will contact you and will advise us about how to get the best possible result from the insurers".

I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck (and the dealer's) and I sincerely hope that this all turns out as well as it can for you. But, you are the one who took the bike out (one of the most powerful bikes on earth...certainly you knew that) without a clear idea of who was responsible for what, you operated it imprudently, and you wrecked it. Now you get to show folks that you are a gentleman. You can rationalize all you want, and I'm sure that lots of folks will suggest novel ways to do it (e.g. it was the dealer's fault for letting you take the bike with "new" tires). Situations like these provide an opportunity to show people what kind of guy you really are. Don't disappoint.

Try to look at the bright side..you're probably going to wind up with an almost new bike.
I was wondering if anyone was going to ask the driver to accept responsibility for his actions. You beat me to the punch. I'm thinking you signed a waiver that indicated YOU would pay for any damages.

That's the right thing to do. It's no different than if you went into a store and broke a vase. You buy it.

Glad you are ok. The R is a bike to be reckoned with, in nearly all situations. The power is awesome and should be respected even further in the wet. I test-drove the S, the R and the RT. I signed a waiver and believed that could care for them. I drove them very carefully to say the least and was a bit nervous during the test.

Rest well,

Gravity
 

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Most likely the primary coverage WOULD be Collision coverage. The reason being is that his personal policy would transfer to a Non-Owned vehicle in a situation like this.

That said, you also have Propert Damage Liability coverage. You would have to read your policy to find out what are the named exclusions under each coverage.

It would be my advice to turn this over to your insurance company and let them either cover the bike or deny a claim in writing. If they pay, you should not have any expense out of pocket. At that time, you will better understand your position.

Do keep the discussion civil in any case. It gets you nowhere to have this become confrontational at any level.

Lastly, if the dealership has coverage that ends up paying, they will most likely present you with a demand for the money. The dealership's coverage is for his protection and his carrier has a right to pursue the at fault party. They might find "comparable neglegence" on the part of their insured (dealership) and accept a portion of the loss.

Good luck.
 

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allikanbe1 said:
Too bad you wrecked the bike. Glad you are not hurt. Now, man up and pay the bill. I don't see where there is any question as to who is liable.

If the man has ancillary liability/property damage insurance coverage thru his auto or other policies, why would he need to pay - he has already paid for insurance coverage - it is then his insurer's liability for taking-on the coverage.
 

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It's a matter of personal style. Your way is a way, and many would choose it. Immediate payment might enable the dealer to get a KR demo bike back on the road sooner than later. It might help his cash position until the insurance comes through. Yusuf is out nothing at the moment and the dealer is out a bike. It ain't fair. Anyone who reads the boards knows that dealerships fail and we should disapprove of practices which hurt our dealers.
 

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furgetboutit said:
If the man has ancillary liability/property damage insurance coverage thru his auto or other policies, why would he need to pay - he has already paid for insurance coverage - it is then his insurer's liability for taking-on the coverage.
I think the point he and others are trying to make is that Yusuf is the liable party and he needs to step up to the plate and get the dealer taken care of, whether it be through insurance funds or out of pocket. BMW riders are lucky to be able to test ride bikes at their dealers - don't mess it up for all of us.
 

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DebS said:
I think the point he and others are trying to make is that Yusuf is the liable party and he needs to step up to the plate and get the dealer taken care of, whether it be with insurance funds or out of pocket. The insurer is not "liable for taking on the coverage" - they are just agreeing to cover damages incurred the by insured. I don't see any gray areas here - Yusuf owes for the bike, one way or another.
It's really simple.

If Yusef has coverage, his carrier will pay. Yusef only get's a "claim" on his record. He owes no further money.

If the dealer has coverage, the dealers carrier will pay. Yusef will probably get billed by that insurance company. The dealer might be held partially at fault, this remains to be seen.

If nobody has coverage, Yusef owes for the damage to the bike. He can also try to make a case that he's only partially at fault.

Somewhere along the line, it has been decided that "we" are never at fault.

Unless you have deep pockets, the best thing a you can do is make sure you have proper insurance in force.

It sounds like Yusef probably had no business taking that bike on a Demo ride.

Now you tell me whose fault that is!
 
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