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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have read posts on weep holes in the clutch casing and I'm considering drilling the case. There is a small weep on the gearbox/clutch mating surface and (if I read the posts correctly) a weep hole will help prevent the clutch being damaged with oil. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Advice on performing the said deed, and an accurate description of where EXACTLY to drill please. I'd hate to get it wrong....
 

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I wouldn't rely on that saving your clutch. I drilled mine and dropped a cotter pin in from the inside when I had it apart. That's something they used to do years ago. It offers a loose cover for the hole as you don't want road crap in there. Any oil leak then shows on the folded legs of the cotter.

The main reason for doing it is to give more certain info that there is engine oil leaking past the seal.

I did post where to put it, but there is nothing to damage as there's a big space behind.

You have to find the low point around the casing first. Perhaps you wanted dimensions which on curved surfaces with few references would be difficult. I'm a pragmatist:

Park the bike on the center stand on level ground and run some colored water around the clutch casing and watch where it's dripping - that's the centre line. I think I drilled 4 or 5 mm dia. and that was just forwards of the seam with the tranni. As I said, there is nothing behind as long as you watch the drill depth and go only as far as the casting thickness. If you are cautious, start with a 1mm drill first so you find the depth.



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Discussion Starter #3
Vox, you're a legend. Thank you for your advice The issue of road grime entering the clutch has been on my concern list. I think for now I will just monitor the weep and see what develops. As I mentioned earlier, the allen bolts were all able to be tightened about 30deg which surprised me. Is this an early indication of seal break down?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yep I reckon that would do it. Thats why I'm a chef.... Anyway, any thoughts on the loose allen bolts?
 

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flyingkiwi said:
Yep I reckon that would do it. Thats why I'm a chef.... Anyway, any thoughts on the loose allen bolts?
Torque Wrench? Hard to say where they were before, may have been within specs.I know I had to take the exhaust shield off my bike and that one wasn't very tight.Weird having to use one of the main bolts for such a light thing as an exhaust shield.....!

But the same happened on my GS when new, I think they are supposed to check all fasteners at the first service....obviously they did not do it on my GS. Just did them myself, part of the yearly schedule for me, check all fasteners and....look for seeps! :)

Don't worry....it won't fall apart like my friend's Kubota tractor that broke in half at that location, it is a BMW after all. :) :) :)
 

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When the bike gets as old as mine, you have more problems getting some of the bolts out than worrying about them working loose!

I always use torque wrenches. I have 3 and can go down to the low settings you get on the M6 or M8 cover screws. On my older bike I tend to grease threads and torque 10% less than spec. if the bolts are in Ali casings and have been out before. The BMW casting material quality is a bit variable - it's not like aircraft Duralumin spec. Don't use Loctite in tapped ali unless they specify it, even then take a raincheck. It's nasty stuff even in the few places where you are supposed to use it.



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voxmagna said:
When the bike gets as old as mine, you have more problems getting some of the bolts out than worrying about them working loose!

I always use torque wrenches. I have 3 and can go down to the low settings you get on the M6 or M8 cover screws. On my older bike I tend to grease threads and torque 10% less than spec. if the bolts are in Ali casings and have been out before. The BMW casting material quality is a bit variable - it's not like aircraft Duralumin spec. Don't use Loctite in tapped ali unless they specify it, even then take a raincheck. It's nasty stuff even in the few places where you are supposed to use it.
Thanks Vox, I was trying to find that 10% figure yesterday, oiled vs not, different forum.

Not my words, but a bit of explanation here, the original question was: Do you clean/lube all the bolts before reassembly? I always do and more, posted so but this came up, left me stumped a bit, but thinking that it could not be much more than a reasonnable percentage I could live with, looking back at all them bolts I may have installed at the wrong torque over the years.

This really depends. Grease/oil/locktite change the torque specs. The lubrication means that the bolt is at higher tension, with less torque. Another way to say this is that the rotational effort drops while the amount of pressure the bolt is under doesn't. So you reduce the torque value to hit the same compressive force. Most shop manuals cover a torque value and if it should be greased/oiled/locktite/molybedenum disulfided or whatever

But on my bike, after cleaning/oiling the threads, if I cannot screw the bolt in by hand, I reclean the threads. I have seen too much white powdery residue coming out with bolts over the years, some recently, I make sure it does not happen again!

And Loctite in Ali......nobody should make THAT mistake! It may even strip the threads coming out, not my mistake, but someone else's I had to fix! :(
 

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The 10% figure is my own from years of getting a stripped thread in the most difficult place to fix and of course 'The white stuff' - particularly around brake fluid areas.

We could start a new thread on what torque means and how it's interpreted. I've always assumed it only means anything if the threads are cleaned and friction reduced which means oiled/greased. But I now accept the better method of torque tightening which is to torque to a figure then use an angle gauge for say 30 degrees, or whatever the spec says. You generally only meet this on HT bolts like cyl. head etc.

You can get fooled sometimes by the very small torques for the M6-M8. The average shop wrenches are far too long, which is why I use a dial torque wrench for those. If there are gaskets underneath covers, it is surprising how many trips around a pan set are needed before the torque gets stable.

Unfortunately, BMW use Loctite on the rear swingarm bearing caps which have a large ultra-fine threads in the ali swingarm and a relatively small hex to remove them.

Yes, if you start to turn a bolt and it binds because one thread has turned into white stuff and bound up, keep turning in the same direction and you end up with a clearance hole and no threads! Spending 1/2 hour drilling and cleaning out a bolt like that has saved me a set of calipers.



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voxmagna said:
We could start a new thread on what torque means and how it's interpreted. I've always assumed it only means anything if the threads are cleaned and friction reduced which means oiled/greased. But I now accept the better method of torque tightening which is to torque to a figure then use an angle gauge for say 30 degrees, or whatever the spec says. You generally only meet this on HT bolts like cyl. head etc.
There is already a thread on ADVRider on that I'm following, I'll throw that 10% in there, see what they think. There are some pretty darn good wrenches on that site! And considering lots of home mechanics only use them cheapo deflection type torque wrenches, there is certainly already a margin of error with them.

After so many years of wrenching, many times I don't even use the torque wrench, but recheck after and am usually right on specs, but that's me and DO NOT recommend that to most home mechanics.You certainly have to install a lot of bolts and nuts of different sizes and torques to get the feel of them first.

But as you mentioned the 30 degree with the angle gauge....one more tool to buy, I'm waiting for the sale. But in the meantime I have to reinstall the clutch on my K1200RS and that is exactly the procedure for the center nut.

I have always gotten away before by carefully marking the 30 degree angle on the bellhousing and using it as the angle gauge. Twice on the K100Rs, more than that on the GS, and everything checked out fine.

However, considering how long it takes to get at them clutches on the K1200RS, I do not want to screw up, so if you see any fault with that procedure, let me know, I'll break down and drive a long way to the tool store....! :thumb:

P.S. There was no Loctite on my swingarm bearing caps....but the previous "Mechanic" had somehow "forgotten" to tighten down the pivot pin on the left side......amongst other things..... :( :( :(
 

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voxmagna said:
You can make up a large circle protractor on a piece of white card using any decent drafting prog or Coreldraw and cut a 1/2" hex in the center to do the same job. Choose a reference point somewhere on the casing and move the wrench around to the correct angle.
Thanks Vox, that one I don't have to make, I already have a nice large plastic one for woodworking.But good info for anyone exploring the bowels of them bikes! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 

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Anyone try the brake cleaner trick on the clutch?

I saw an article that mentioned the weeping hole...
you drill the hole to prove the oil is leaking and also to allow a washout with brake
cleaner - so you may postpone the dreaded seal and oily clutch fix...

Has this been accepted practice - best practices?
I figure I'm going to try it because I have oil weeping at the right side case...
my clutch is not that strong... I think I have a bad seal.

I was thinking I would put a little drain hose on it, maybe a rubber bung with
a hole for the tube... point the tube towards the back of the bike, every now and then,
give it a rinse

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Take an allen key and make sure the bolts are not loose on the gearbox/clutch mating face. Mine was weaping a year or so ago, and ALL the bolts were loose! A moderate tighten (up to 90 deg) of the bolts (can't get a torque wrench in there :( ) and all has been sweet ever since. :D Certainly made me panic a bit though when I saw the film of oil :yeow:
 

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K-Clive said:
I saw an article that mentioned the weeping hole...
you drill the hole to prove the oil is leaking and also to allow a washout with brake
cleaner - so you may postpone the dreaded seal and oily clutch fix...

Has this been accepted practice - best practices?
I figure I'm going to try it because I have oil weeping at the right side case...
my clutch is not that strong... I think I have a bad seal.

I was thinking I would put a little drain hose on it, maybe a rubber bung with
a hole for the tube... point the tube towards the back of the bike, every now and then,
give it a rinse

Cheers
I don't see flushing oil out of the housing as 'accepted' or 'good practice'. A weep hole is fine to assist the diagnosis.

But if it buys some time to finish the riding season or you get home to plan a teardown, then anything is fine but it doesn't change the inevitable of a teardown, new seals and clutch.

My fawcet is leaking, is it OK to just put a bucket under and keep emptying it, or should I get it fixed! I'm going away on a long trip, will the bucket fill up whilst I'm away? :)



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