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Discussion Starter #1
here are the results of the full system shootout between the following:

* laser full system w/ powercup muffler
* ztechnik full titanium system
* remus full system w/ titanium muffler
* akrapovic full system w/ hexagonal muffler

please note that all tests were run on the same day, same dyno, same bike (2005 k1200s, evoluzione race airflow system, evoluzione stage one head, 6.0 program update).


overlay of all systems:




laser full system w/ powercup muffler:




ztechnik full titanium system:




remus full system w/ titanium muffler:




akrapovic full system w/ hexagonal muffler:

 

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Thank you Ken,

I would be interested in the full system results with Laser Hotcam, as this one is street oriented compared to the Power Cup. I know it's difficult to satisfy the individual needs of our members but for you it would be a question of swaping the muflers only I gues.

Cheers,
Nick
 

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Thank you for posting these results Ken. Looks like there is a price to be paid for top end power and torque. Although the Akrapovic full system is not the highest output performer the results are much smoother than the others. Near linear HP from 3500 - 6200 plus more consistent increase in torque should make for smoother throttle control plus output gains through the commonly used rev range. The fall in outputs that some of the systems show from the start of the runs (~3500) is interesting.

Are the posted results all reduced / corrected to standard ambient and barometric conditions. It goes without saying that testing of all exhaust systems and combinations is neither practical or feasible so do you think it would be a reasonable tie into your work if say two of the tested systems were used as comparable benchmarch dyno runs and addition testing was continued elsewhere. The Staintune muffler (highest manufacturer claims) with std headers / Laser HC headers / etc looks interesting on paper. This site may be useful for output standardisation: http://www.csgnetwork.com/relhumhpcalc.html
 

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Ken,
You state that the tests were done w/ the stage one head work ( by your shop). If memory serves, that alone is worth some 5 to 7 hp. If that is the case, the few hp gained by $2,200 worth of titanium, is almost as waistefull as the military and their $1,000 toilets!

I wish these were done w/o the head work so that a base line of comparison could be studied.

If i am off base, I appologise ahead of time!
 

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How much of th HP gain is due to the head work, how much due to the race filters, and how much due to the 2k worth of exhaust?

Tough to compare there result to the slip-on test :(
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i think some of you are missing the point of what i was trying to show. forget what the actual numbers are and look at the trends. keep in mind we ran the tests we did for our own information (both slip-on & full systems). we had our own r&d reasons for running the tests the way we did and i thought we would share this info because it might be interesting to some people. we have close to ten thousand dollars invested in these tests (between buying all of the exhausts, the enginnering time, the dyno time, the r&r of each system, etc.) and we determined what we were after.
 

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evoluzione said:
i think some of you are missing the point of what i was trying to show. forget what the actual numbers are and look at the trends. keep in mind we ran the tests we did for our own information (both slip-on & full systems). we had our own r&d reasons for running the tests the way we did and i thought we would share this info because it might be interesting to some people. we have close to ten thousand dollars invested in these tests (between buying all of the exhausts, the enginnering time, the dyno time, the r&r of each system, etc.) and we determined what we were after.

please do not misunderstand. I am not in anyway, shape, form, or fashion tring to impune anything negative. On the contrary, your work, time and expense is most valuable. I am most glad you did the research. I know were I will be buying any aftermarket go fast( er) sound better stuff.

The only thing, was I was wondering what the real hp gain would be from a full titanium system only. I am sure you have a idea what the head work will yeild....I think you said ( correct me if i am wrong please) about 5 hp.

Ken, we are in the same church & same pew. I am on your side!

ONLY the Kindest Regards,
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #8
in a nutshell, our bike progressed as follows (numbers are approximate peak power):


stock baseline - 145 hp

laser hotcam slip-on - 149 hp

laser hotcam slip-on & race airflow system - 154 hp

leo vince slip-on & race airflow system - 154 hp

remus full system & race airflow system - 152 hp (header gave +10 hp midrange)

laser hotcam slip-on/remus header & race airflow system - 153 hp

laser powercup slip-on/remus header & race airflow system - 157 hp

stage one headwork, laser powercup slip-on/remus header & race airflow system - 166 hp

stage one headwork, laser powercup full system & race airflow system - 168 hp (laser header lost 5 hp midrange compared to remus)

dimsport unit, stage one headwork, laser powercup full system & race airflow system - 169 hp (+3 hp in midrange w/improved throttle response)

dimsport unit, stage one headwork, ztechnik full system & race airflow system - 168 hp (+4 hp in midrange over laser)

dimsport unit, stage one headwork, akrapovic full system & race airflow system - 166 hp (+2 hp in midrange over ztechnik)
 

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I see what you meant in your much earlier posts about good value for the $ with the slip ons and air filter mods - big jump there. The next major difference looks like the mid range output of the Remus then the head cleanup. The Remus full system certainly makes a difference in useable mid range power and torque. Remus header and Staintune muffler could be interesting against the full Remus ? There's a lot of time and money gone into producing this information - thank you again for making it available.
 

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Racegun said:
please do not misunderstand. I am not in anyway, shape, form, or fashion tring to impune anything negative. On the contrary, your work, time and expense is most valuable. I am most glad you did the research. I know were I will be buying any aftermarket go fast( er) sound better stuff.

The only thing, was I was wondering what the real hp gain would be from a full titanium system only. I am sure you have a idea what the head work will yeild....I think you said ( correct me if i am wrong please) about 5 hp.

Ken, we are in the same church & same pew. I am on your side!

ONLY the Kindest Regards,
Dave



Just an fyi...... The fact that the exhaust systems are made from titanium have no affect on hp. That is a weight savings only.

They produce more power because of the design of the headers, and their less restrictice nature.
 

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ToddG said:
Just an fyi...... The fact that the exhaust systems are made from titanium have no affect on hp. That is a weight savings only.

They produce more power because of the design of the headers, and their less restrictice nature.
[sarcasm on]

Wow, really? :confused:

[sarcasm off]
 

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rotflmao....

this reminds me the other day i was giving my son lessons in mechanics and car maintenance. I asked him what this was ( the radiator). After a few hints he got it. Then I said cool, so that i know you understand...tell me in your own words what the radiator does.,,,,he said & I quote," I does what it needs to, to get the job done" !!!! :think:

that was priceless, we both laughed and do so to this day when i remind him! :)
 

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BSBG said:
[sarcasm on]

Wow, really? :confused:

[sarcasm off]



I was responding to the comment the person I quoted made......

"The only thing, was I was wondering what the real hp gain would be from a full titanium system only."

It sounded to me like he was stating that the titanium made a power difference. I was clarifying that it did not. And that it was/is the design of the header, can, lack of cat converter that made the diff. JUST IN CASE he didnt know.


You are obviously full of internet courage. Great way to treat a new member.... I hope your attitude isnt indicative of the rest of my stay here..........
 

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ToddG said:
Great way to treat a new member....
Welcome to the forum - there are a few of us with flesh wounds from recent flaming of each other - we were told to sit in the naughty corner until - "WE FUCKING GREW UP" - so now we're all calm and considerate. Anonimity brings out the worst in some folks but - if the members aren't beautiful the bikes are!

The development that Ken has put into his test bikes with the Dimsport etc etc looks like a viable way around the fuelling constraints that the BMW engineers are faced with to satisfy the regulations. Power Commanders are not going to be made for KS or KR so why would you bother supporting a company (PC) that is not interested in your money - bugger em. Whatever it takes......... Dimsport, Remus header, own choice slip on, air filter upgrade, cyl head cleanup, strong forearms and an open budget for rear tyres.....all designed to make your license disappear.......whats not to like!
 

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BSBG said:
Lighten up Todd, it was a joke.

And welcome to the board :ricky

No problem. I will take it that way then.

Sorry I misinterpreted. Sometimes it is very hard to read what people mean from a post....!!!!


Thanks for the welcome..!
 

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Lenz said:
Welcome to the forum - there are a few of us with flesh wounds from recent flaming of each other - we were told to sit in the naughty corner until - "WE FUCKING GREW UP" - so now we're all calm and considerate. Anonimity brings out the worst in some folks but - if the members aren't beautiful the bikes are!

The development that Ken has put into his test bikes with the Dimsport etc etc looks like a viable way around the fuelling constraints that the BMW engineers are faced with to satisfy the regulations. Power Commanders are not going to be made for KS or KR so why would you bother supporting a company (PC) that is not interested in your money - bugger em. Whatever it takes......... Dimsport, Remus header, own choice slip on, air filter upgrade, cyl head cleanup, strong forearms and an open budget for rear tyres.....all designed to make your license disappear.......whats not to like!



Thank you for the welcome.


I think the dimsport is the way to go. Obviously it is our only option at this point. Which isnt bad being that some have no choice at all. I would rather have options but such is life. Maybe with another year or so in the market some other aftermarket vendors will step up to the plate!

I just ordered the Akropovic stainless header with titanium can along with Kens race filter setup. Dimsport will be following shortly. The great thing is that Ken already has maps that will get you close on a number of combos. Some final tweaking on a dyno would be good to fine tune each bikes quirks...
 

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I've got the race filters and a laser slip-on - the dimsport will be my next performance upgrade. I was told that the processor for the Dimsport unit's
cycle time is every 10 ms vs Power Commander at 100 ms, so it seems
that it's a better control module anyway...that and the fact that you can
put it on your next bike, just by swapping the wiring harness as opposed to the power commander whereby the firmware is programmed for each specific bike.
 

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Thank you, Ken.

Howdy Ken,

Thank you for taking the time to post excerpts from your R&D efforts. They are most appreciated and very informative.

I notice that you used a "Dimsport". As I understand it, DynoJet is not going to produce a Power Commander for the new "K" motor.

Does the Dimsport allow for engine tuning, a la Power Commander?

If so, was it's effectiveness significant?


.


.
 
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