HELP!!! 2007 K1200GT Won’t Start

2195 Views 46 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Jeff3673, 4 d ago

clintseeley

Discussion Starter · 7 mo ago

I have a K1200GT that has 89,000 miles on it. The engine sounded a little “raspy” for a couple weeks. Got on it one morning to head to work and upon starting the bike it was more of a rattle sound. Shortly after getting out of the driveway the check engine light came on so I went to the end of my road and turned around and took the car to work.

Tried starting up the bike multiple times after and it had the same rattle sound but it still ran.
After a couple of weeks of it sitting, I decided to order a manual cam chain tensioner from Southern California Motowerks. The bike had the new style CCT from BMW currently installed.

New CCT came in today so I replaced it and followed the steps in the video from their website. Went to start the bike and it won’t start at all. Fiddled with it a little bit and decided to replace it with the BMW CCT and same result.

When I try to start it the display dims and the starter doesn’t turn over multiple times like it is trying to start. Had the battery checked out and it had 12.8 volts. You can hear the cam chain turn slightly but nothing else.

Not sure where to go from here. Could be the starter motor/relay. Could be that the engine is locked up but I don’t believe that is the case because it was running before. Just rattle-y. Thanks in advance for any help. Really missing riding since I rode daily!

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K1200sJools

· #21 · 7 mo ago (Edited)

Looking on the BMW Workshop CD there are no markings on the Crankshaft itself - its all done by setting TDC when the engine is stripped, locking the Crankshaft and then setting the Camshafts.

If it were me, I would now be looking to split or cut the Timing Chain to allow removal of the Camshafts. Once they are removed, you know the valves are all closed. This means you can safely rotate the Crankshaft to use a DTI or Piston Stop to find TDC and start the engine timing again - with a new chain and the guides you are replacing anyway.

I found these tools, but I'm sure others exist - or even a DTI Gauge would work if its got a long enough reach (and a way of holding it secure of course). The Spark Plugs are M12 x 1.25mm thread if you're looking for a tool locally.

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K1200sJools

· #22 · 7 mo ago

I think this video shows quite well how to find TDC

EricK1300GTSE

· #23 · 7 mo ago

AFAIK these are not interference engines? Can you turn thr engine backwards? So if you do skip a tooth on the cam timing chain, you will need to retime the engine. Can you remove the spark plugs ? This should allow you to rotate the engine until #1 cylinder is at TDC, then, locking that, you should be able to then rotate the cam shafts (after removing the timing chain) and set the valves at the corresponding position. Normally the intake and exhaust cans are marked with holes or slots that refer to #1 cylinder being in a particular position.

K1200sJools

· #24 · 7 mo ago

EricK1300GTSE said:
AFAIK these are not interference engines? Can you turn thr engine backwards? So if you do skip a tooth on the cam timing chain, you will need to retime the engine. Can you remove the spark plugs ? This should allow you to rotate the engine until #1 cylinder is at TDC, then, locking that, you should be able to then rotate the cam shafts (after removing the timing chain) and set the valves at the corresponding position. Normally the intake and exhaust cans are marked with holes or slots that refer to #1 cylinder being in a particular position.

I personally wouldn't risk turning the engine either way until the camshafts are removed.

In the early K1200 guise, there is a lot of information around about these engines being destroyed when the timing slipped. That's why BMW introduced the Jump Guard at the bottom Sprocket.

Either way, in this situation, you still need to find no1 piston TDC in order to set the timing correctly.

Capt howdy

· #25 · 7 mo ago

I think that the engines are interference engines. That’s the means of achieving high outputs. Like Jools I’d be very cautious about turning the engine over with the possibility of mistimed valves

Reactions: 2

EricK1300GTSE

· #26 · 7 mo ago

Thanks for clearing that up, like I said I wasn't sure. Sounds to me if you aren't 100% confident in doing that yourself, it's time to put it on a trailer and take it to a reputable mechanic.

K1200sJools

· #27 · 7 mo ago

I would say that as you've been happy to get this far and you've shown your competent enough to know you got a potential problem (by stopping work and asking for advice here).

The next stage to get the camshafts out and try and find TDC yourself, isn't really that much of a leap and wouldn't actually make things any more difficult or expensive, if you then decide you need to find a Mechanic.

Reactions: 1

clintseeley

Discussion Starter · #28 · 7 mo ago

So I have pulled the spark plugs out, the cam chain tensioner, the tensioner guide rail, and what was left of the lower guide rail. I pulled the sprocket off of the camshaft and took the cam chain out as well. Right now, I am able to spin the crankshaft freely. I can spin it around without it hitting anything inside.

As far as the camshafts go, the "I" on the inlet is pointed straight up and the "U" on the exhaust is pointed straight up also. They are 90 degrees from being set for cylinder 1 at TDC. I have tried to turn the camshafts by hand but they won't budge. I think that it is just under a lot of spring pressure maybe.

Any input on turning them by hand? There isn't anywhere to put a wrench/socket. Best idea I can come up with is making something to fit onto where the sprocket goes on the exhaust camshaft.

botus

· #29 · 7 mo ago (Edited)

if the cams are stationary and the crank is turned through most of a full revolution - I would expect multiple valves have been bent - I can't believe these are safe - as in a valve open is cleared by the moving piston

that's why one of the posts says its OK if the cams are removed (not the cam chain is removed), with no cams, all valves if undamaged will be fully closed and so you can spin things, if the cams are in place and they stop, at least a few valves are in some form of open postion

even a minor kiss of a valve on the piston can destroy the whole engine - bottom end fun can be any or all of a conrod getting bent, piston / bore damage, crank journal or bearing trashed and at the top the whole cylinder head can easily be written off, as it not just a bent valve, the value guide can be damaged and either irreplaceable and or other damage to the head around the valve seats or guide area

Reactions: 1

K1200sJools

· #30 · 7 mo ago (Edited)

2

I've got to agree with botus. If you can turn the crankshaft whilst the cams stay still, you have a valve failure situation.

My original suggestion was to remove the cams before turing the engine anymore, as the valves would then all be closed and unable to contact the pistons when rotated.

Here is a screenprint fom the workshop CD, showing which cylinder valves you can check at which point in the cycle. You will see that there is NO Single position where ALL the valves are closed at the same time (if there were, you could check the valve clearances at that point without any more turning)!

Sadly, there's no way those open valves are gonna clear the piston in this High Compression Engine.

Finally, I've added a photo of a K1300s Piston top. You can see that BMW have had to indent the top of the pistons with little cutouts to clear the valves. This being necessary for normal engine running shows how tight the clearances are.

I think now, maybe it's unfortunately time to look for a good used replacement engine to fit?

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K1200sJools

· #31 · 7 mo ago (Edited)

clintseeley said:
So I have pulled the spark plugs out, the cam chain tensioner, the tensioner guide rail, and what was left of the lower guide rail. I pulled the sprocket off of the camshaft and took the cam chain out as well. Right now, I am able to spin the crankshaft freely. I can spin it around without it hitting anything inside.

As far as the camshafts go, the "I" on the inlet is pointed straight up and the "U" on the exhaust is pointed straight up also. They are 90 degrees from being set for cylinder 1 at TDC. I have tried to turn the camshafts by hand but they won't budge. I think that it is just under a lot of spring pressure maybe.

Any input on turning them by hand? There isn't anywhere to put a wrench/socket. Best idea I can come up with is making something to fit onto where the sprocket goes on the exhaust camshaft.

From the cam position you describe, that is the check point for No.2 Cylinder (see my post above).

If valves are not hitting the piston when rotating the crankshaft, it means they are already broken or bent - along with whatever other damage is also there.

I really wouldn't be suprised if this damage has also jammed the camshaft(s)

EricK1300GTSE

· #32 · 7 mo ago

K1200sJools said:
I would say that as you've been happy to get this far and you've shown your competent enough to know you got a potential problem (by stopping work and asking for advice here).

The next stage to get the camshafts out and try and find TDC yourself, isn't really that much of a leap and wouldn't actually make things any more difficult or expensive, if you then decide you need to find a Mechanic.

Apologies, I did not want to come across rude or abrupt, that was not my intention.

Reactions: 1

K1200sJools

· #33 · 7 mo ago (Edited)

EricK1300GTSE said:
Apologies, I did not want to come across rude or abrupt, that was not my intention.

My turn to apologize - I wasn't trying to argue with you and didn't mean my comment to read like I was. You are right that there will always potentially come a point when it's best to admit defeat on a job and get trusted specialist advice. My thinking at that time was, on this job having got this far, the next stage (that I would have done) wasn't really that big a step. Anyway, by what it seems from OP Clint's later posts, this engine now has much bigger problems than just trying to safely establish TDC.

Reactions: 1

K1200sJools

· #34 · 7 mo ago

Just to show how much Mechanics and Garages enjoy taking over jobs (there's plenty of variations on this sign out there - strangely, none of which get cheaper the more you "help") 😆😆

Rectangle Font Signage Poster Sign

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Reactions: 1

EricK1300GTSE

· #35 · 7 mo ago

K1200sJools said:
Just to show how much Mechanics and Garages enjoy taking over jobs (there's plenty of variations on this sign out there - strangely, none of which get cheaper the more you "help") 😆😆

View attachment 32550

The last rate is still cheaper than most workshops around my area....

Reactions: 1

Jeff3673

· #36 · 7 d ago

Hi! I’ve just come across this post. What was your outcome?

I’m in the exact same position - my timing chain has jumped as a result of a completely demolished lower cam chain rail. I have it torn down - just trying to figure out how to get the crank and cams back in time. Should I pop the cams out so I can turn the crank??

K1200sJools

· #37 · 7 d ago

Jeff3673 said:
Hi! I’ve just come across this post. What was your outcome?

I’m in the exact same position - my timing chain has jumped as a result of a completely demolished lower cam chain rail. I have it torn down - just trying to figure out how to get the crank and cams back in time. Should I pop the cams out so I can turn the crank??

If your going to try and retime the engine, then yes defo remove the cams before turning the crank! I recon you'll be very lucky to not have valve damage after the chain jumping though. Having just replaced the timing chain on my K1200s, I realised that you can see No.4 crank journal and con-rod etc behind the case, so you can eyeball when its at TDC. Good Luck!

Jeff3673

· #38 · 7 d ago

I think I’m ok - I’ve been into all the cylinders with a boroscope and it all looks good. I know you can’t see the valves but I’d think I’d be able to see if the pistons had been smacked - but I do t see anything.

K1200sJools

· #39 · 7 d ago

Sounds encouraging! You'll also get an idea of any valve damage when you remove the cams, if any valves stay down, they have a problem.

Reactions: 1

clintseeley

Discussion Starter · #40 · 6 d ago

Jeff3673 said:
Hi! I’ve just come across this post. What was your outcome?

I’m in the exact same position - my timing chain has jumped as a result of a completely demolished lower cam chain rail. I have it torn down - just trying to figure out how to get the crank and cams back in time. Should I pop the cams out so I can turn the crank??

Yes you will have to remove the camshafts in order to turn the crank and set TDC. I just put a long screw driver down into the hole and eyeballed when it came all the way to the top, then reinstalled the camshafts at the correct location. There is a video on YouTube of a guy changing the chain and he explains it pretty well. You’ll have to take the coolant pump off too as it is bolted into the camshaft.

I got my bike all back together in January. I ended up making a few mistakes. Make sure you have the external torx sockets for the sprocket screws and for the coolant pump bolt that goes into the camshaft.

Make sure to use an INCH-POUND torque wrench when reinstalling the clutch cover bolts. I used a foot-pound torque wrench and although it was able to be set to the correct torque, it was at the very low end of the torque range on the wrench. I ended up snapping a couple of bolts.

It was a hell of a task to get it all back together. My bike runs but it does have a small oil leak somewhere and I just don’t have the patience to take it all back apart. I’ve put about 1000 miles on it since getting it put back together. It sounds a little funny at idle but it sounds fine once the rpm’s get up there.

Good luck! Let me know if you have any other questions.

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