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Hi guys (and girls too!) my brother and I both bought matching 04 k12rs' new in 05. We both have similar riding styles and both love everything about our bikes. We always take a fall trip around lake michigan (Great colors) with some of other guys (they don't have beemers, sucks for them!) and when we occasionally race eachother on some desolate road, the winner is the one that got a better launch or whoever did not hit the rev limiter. It is a blast to see how well they go. Both the bikes are stock and my brother weighs about 30 pounds more than me. I have more gear packed than him(tools, food and such) so we are just about even on the weight side. Fast forward to our fall 08 trip and having a little brother rivalry, I purchased and installed a rhinewest chip for my bike. Let me say that I thought it felt faster on my test run but was going to put it to the test on our 08 fall trip. The other two guys that ride with us knew about my chip and my wife thought I was out of my mind ( She's right!) . My brother and I finally got a couple of open straight aways and I beat him every time. Even when I had a bad launch or hit the rev my bike still pulled on him and passed him. We have a comm system between the two of us and he had every excuse in the book on why he could not win and it was on the fifth race that he had a perfect launch but I still was able to pass him and while I was passing him he said that he slipped on some gravel and I laughed as I passed and told him that I chipped my bike and the look on his face as I was creeping past him was just priceless. Now I guess you could say I like to play with my bike so the urge to go a little faster was on my mind so I installed a K&N air filter after my 12k check up and just before our fall 09 trip. When I went to finish my brother off I couldn't. It was like I took two steps back. I got great gas milage but there was definitely a power loss. We were back to whoever got out of the hole first. I did not tell him about the k&n and we just laughed it off. SO after our road trip, I rent out a drag strip with my muscle car club and my brother and I had a score to settle and we brought our bikes and dragged four times. No bags, no gps, no nothing. Neither one of us had ever brought a bike down a track before and I nearly left my boots on the starting line it was so sticky. I never felt my bike hook like that ever before. Of the four races against eachother, he won two and I won two, and then the rain moved in. NOW we have rain date at the race track in the spring and I have to win, I am the baby brother, but I have to win. I asked him if he chipped is bike and he said he wished he could just wash his bike. He is married, has four boys, and no patience so I really believe that he has down nothing to his bike.
MY QUESTION is should I take out the k&n air filter and just run the stock air filter, as that seemed the fastest to me so far. Does anyone have any suggestions ( no a k13s is not a option right now), or has anyone else run a k&n with no luck as well. HELP ME!!

Thanks for your time!!!! ernie
 

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:D

Lose weight.

A lot.
 

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Easy. Just run some nitro.

Tell him you made the mistake of running regular low-octane grade fuel last time you two raced so now you are putting in premium grade as you should have done.

Just stay unspecific that it is a nitro blend you dumped in the tank too.


Mack
 

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sorry for the long story, we were dead even, then I chipped my bike and beat him, then tried to get additional gains and put in a k&n and now we are back to dead even with the chip and the k&n. So my question is do you guys think I should go back to the stock air filter and just the chip? Sounds like I answered my own question!!!
*I have thought about losing more weight but I'm 6'1 and 168, I think if I lose alot more weight I may not be able to hold on. BUT if I win..... just kidding :D
*where do I get nitro at? sounds like fun :)
thanks for the input guys, I get a ton of useful stuff from this site!!
 

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I thought nitro boost was what the drag boys used? Small, compact, but might blow the motor?

I don't get a lot of dust around here and don't ride off road. Washing the K&N oil out makes it a pretty straight through filter. There's a kind of nice deeper induction noise as you open the throttle and zero flat spots. Perhaps you could try that just as a one off. I mean, if you are up for nitro injection, having the air filter clean through isn't going to worry you.

Of course your Bro. is reading these posts and getting the same ideas!



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Discussion Starter #7
I thought nitro was a seperate injection as well, but from what gmack had said, it sounded as if you could blend it with your gas. I have never heard of that before. Could be interesting, but I am not interested in toasting my motor. I have always run with the k&n oil on the filter. I get the whole better air flow thing, could I run with it washed out when we go to the track?? I thought I read on here somewhere about running 100 octane and the bike screamed with the extra pop. Just throwing ideas out!! thanks
 

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You do not want to run nitro-methane in your beemer. You will lose power and engine life. Nitro requires a completely different fuel delivery and intake system and different engine gaskets as well because the fuel will attack conventional gasket material. It's not just your gaskets that will be harmed either. Nitro is similar to propane in that it is an abrasive fuel that actually causes wear. If you simply mix nitro with your gasoline you will lose power as nitro has significantly less chemical energy than gasoline. The only reason it produces so much power in top fuel dragsters is because it requires so much less oxygen to burn that they can pour copious quantities of fuel into the engine. Gasoline requires a fuel/air mix of approximately 14.7:1. Give or take depending on application. Nitro runs best at a mixture of around 1.7:1 so even though the fuel delivers less power per quantity you can burn almost 9 times the quantity of fuel.

Forget nitro. You be far better off to install a nitrous system. Nitrous oxide has its issues too but at least you don't have t re-engineer the engine.
 

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Where are you guys getting nitromethane?!?! :wtf: :rotf:

I remember seeing a turbo system from rb racing for the old gen K bike. Have heard some stories about long wait times etc.

The only mod that makes you quicker without putting more "stress" on the engine/trans is to lose weight (from the bike or yourself).

A lot of this depends on how much money you have to spend.

Basic mods that should make a little difference might be an exhuast system (lighter and freer flowing) and the KN paired with a power commander and a custom tune.

Get rid of all the unecessary stuff like bags, passenger pegs, mirrors, GPS mounts, fuzzy dice, etc.
 

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Nitro injection. This is a gas,In a high presurized bottle that is injected into the air intake. I have been thinking of doing it but I do not think this engine can hold up to the increase HP
. It is a very old engine design.

But let me know how it turns out. you should get 20 to 50 more HP
 

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I think you mean nitrous, not nitro.

Forgive the long description but I have often noticed a general lack of understanding on this subject in many circles.

Nitrous (short for nitrous oxide, NO2) is indeed a gas, sometimes used by dentists and can also be purchased in small compressed cylinders for spraying into engines as a power adder. By itself it will do no good because it is not actually a fuel but is a supplier of oxygen. Extra fuel has to be sprayed in with the NOS (over and above normal) to keep the mixture from being too lean.

Nitro is a prefix. There are many words that start with the prefix nitro. In hotrod circles nitro refers to nitro-methane which is a soft cool burning fuel used in funny cars and top fuel rails. In medical circles nitro refers to nitroglycerin which is a heart medication and was once also used as a mining explosive back in the 1700's and 1800's. In R/C modelling circles nitro refers to a blend of methanol, nitro-methane, and castor oil which can also commonly be called glow fuel.

Outside of these kinds of shortened slang usages the term nitro is not actually a word. It is a prefix that will form part of a word. Google was unable to find me any brand name or trade name of fuel called nitro.
 

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Did you ask the boys at Rhinewest?

It was my understanding that the Rhinewest chip was mapped for a stock bike. If you add a K&N, then you changed a component that the chip might not have been optimized for.

That's a hard concept for backyard hot-rodders to get a hold of. Components need to be carefully selected to work with each other. I remember as a teen having friends install a big Holley Double Pumper, headers you could walk through, and the biggest cam they could find on their small block Chevy and then wonder why they lost ALL of their torque below 20000 rpms.
 

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No I have not talked to rhinewest, although what you are saying does make sense, and thank you for putting it in terms of an old car then I can identify much better!! Thanks for the suggestion!!!!
 

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When you chipped to you sproketize also?...you might be better off, seeing you have a stock exhaust....Then there is "boosterplug"...work with the rhinewest? not sure but might be something to look at
 

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Trout said:
..... That's a hard concept for backyard hot-rodders to get a hold of. Components need to be carefully selected to work with each other. I remember as a teen having friends install a big Holley Double Pumper, headers you could walk through, and the biggest cam they could find on their small block Chevy and then wonder why they lost ALL of their torque below 20000 rpms.
Yep. Pretty much all centers around the cam. Move more than about 5 degrees of duration away from a well sorted out combination and suddenly the compression ratio no longer provides optimum static compression numbers, fuel delivery is out of whack, head flow characteristics are no longer optimal, valve to piston clearances become an issue, final drive gearing needs tweaking, etc. The list goes on. The combination ain't so well sorted out anymore.
 

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elephant in the living room

come on guys! a changed air filter hurts performance? phooey!!!! if i was your brother, i would have chipped. i'm sure that's what he did, and he's having a prolonged belly laugh right now. put your johnson back into your pants and u 2 just enjoy riding...............
 

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billbeemer said:
come on guys! a changed air filter hurts performance?
Well, I'm bored, so I guess I'll respond.

Most performance books agree that the single biggest bang for the buck performance modification for a stock engine is a free flowing air filter, such as the K&N. In some cases, the restrictive nature of the air box design does not allow the air filter element to flow as much as it otherwise could. I do not know if the K1200RS air box is restrictive or not. Horespower is all about pumping air through the engine. More air = More horsepower.

In the case of a stock engine with a correct air/fuel ratio, the addition of a K&N filter can cause the air/fuel ratio to go lean, which could indeed cause a performance issue. In the case of a carbureted engine, the ratio is fixed with a richer jet or an adjustment to the needle jet. In the case of a FI engine, the map would need to be adjusted if the software is not able to make extreme "on the fly" adjustments to the A/F ratio.

I am not concluding that the K&N made the bike perform worse. I'm just saying that small changes can make a difference, either good or bad. The only way to see conclusively if the K&N made a difference would be to put the bike on a dyno.
 

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Trout said:
Well, I'm bored, so I guess I'll respond.

Most performance books agree that the single biggest bang for the buck performance modification for a stock engine is a free flowing air filter, such as the K&N. In some cases, the restrictive nature of the air box design does not allow the air filter element to flow as much as it otherwise could. I do not know if the K1200RS air box is restrictive or not. Horespower is all about pumping air through the engine. More air = More horsepower.

In the case of a stock engine with a correct air/fuel ratio, the addition of a K&N filter can cause the air/fuel ratio to go lean, which could indeed cause a performance issue. In the case of a carbureted engine, the ratio is fixed with a richer jet or an adjustment to the needle jet. In the case of a FI engine, the map would need to be adjusted if the software is not able to make extreme "on the fly" adjustments to the A/F ratio.

I am not concluding that the K&N made the bike perform worse. I'm just saying that small changes can make a difference, either good or bad. The only way to see conclusively if the K&N made a difference would be to put the bike on a dyno.
..Agreed if some how you could get more air thru a K&N you would be loosing HP without the extra fuel..but because your air intake relies only on external atmospheric air pressure to fill the intake, your air pressure is going to be maintained in the air box at 14 lbs +/- so unless you compare it to an extremely dirty OEM filter or a true ram air set up to increase the CFM and pressure. A K&H is a waste of time and money. your going to let more dirt in and gum things up with the oil...But it will sound a little better
 

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The exhaust is very restrictive on this bike. The best thing to do is get a better exhaust system so the engine can breathe. It will also reduce the weight by 20#.


Don’t let your brother see this next ridding tip;

As far as ridding style goes, you can use the rev limiter to shift with.
When the bike is in first gear and is under full throttle accelerating place your foot under the shift lever and pull up hard with constant pressure when the RPM starts to reach 8,000 RPM. When the engine reaches the rev limiter 9,200 RPM with full foot pressure on the shifter, the fuel will stop flowing to the engine and will allow the Trans to shift up at full-wide open throttle. (Just like the new K1300S fast shift does)
Then you must release your foot pressure on the shifter to reset the shifter so it will select the next gear. Then reapply the foot pressure on the shifter so it will make the next shift at full throttle. Repeat till you run put of gears or real estate.
 
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