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Discussion Starter #1
I have been monitoring and engaging in these high idle threads at four different sites and want to share my insights. Many of us cross post on several sites.

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First some definitions:

High Idle Syndrome or Idle Hang:
The engine idles between approximately 1800 rpm to 3000 rpm and holds there 5 to 10 seconds after the throttle is closed. Clutched or declutched. It acts like a pinched throttle cable. It usually will idle back to 1000 after a while but it will run rough. Just barely blipping the throttle causes the engine to rev back up to 1800 to 3000 again and hang there again. This can also happen on upshifts and down shifts or steady speeds. In some cases the engine might rev up on its own!

Bucking Bronco Syndrome (BBS):
Sudden on off throttle jerkiness and speeds from 0 to 50 mph. This usually accompanies High Idle.

Stalling:
Engine stops running. Another drivability problem, may be related to the same systems causing High Idle.

Very Sensitive Throttle:
Jerking at low speeds low load conditions; city streets ,construction zones, school zones, or just trying to creep along in slow traffic. Not the same as BBS but similar. Common with 06 GT's.

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After sifting through hundreds of posts on four different forums I have come up with the following general observations.


*I can identify at least 45 cases of High Idle Syndrome starting back in September of 2006.

*The problem is World Wide!!!!

*As of today I can not find any cases High Idle with the Second Generation 07 K1200GT. ECU = BMS-KP !!!!!!!!

*First Gen. 07 GT's ECU = BMS-K seem to have the most cases. Probably due to the fact that more of them were built.

*Many first Gen 07's. run perfectly.

*Most 06 GT's have the Very Sensitive Throttle and most were cured with a change in software to version 7 or 7.1. however they still can have the High Idle Syndrome before or after the upgrades.

*High Idle occurs after the engine is warmed up. High Idle can occur at ANY outside air temps.

*Mileage is not a factor. It can happen to a new bike or it might not happen for thousands of miles. It can be chronic or it may go thousands of miles between episodes ( Paroxysmal High Idle Syndrome).

*Cruise Control is not a factor. Some GT's without cruise control have High Idle Syndrome.

*High Idle is not isolated to Gt's. A few K1200S's and R's suffer from High Idle Syndrome.

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The Fixes ?????

1. Airboxs along with the Idle Control Valves (ICV) have been replaced with some success. But more often than not they are accompanied with a soft ware upgrade and things stay the same or get worse!
Warped air boxes are blamed most of the time for these problems. The high idle sometimes comes back after time.
Airboxes are on back order!

******Apparently BMW is close to introducing a THIRD Airbox and a software version 9.2 to go with it. The Second Gen 07 might be out of production for now!*****

2. A Software upgrade alone will not fix it. Don't let your dealer load 9.1 into a GT unless the Air Box and ICV are also replaced.

3. Turning off the engine then turning it back on may make the High Idle go away for a while.

4. Doing a TPS reset ( disconnection of battery for a period of time then hooking it back up and twisting the throttle twice ) may cure it for a while.

5. Adjusting the throttle cables may seem to give relief but is not the cure. Also true for Very Sensitive Throttle.

6. The few who have had the ECU upgraded to BMS-KP have had excellent results and report more power! Some of these folks are doing this upgrade out of their own pocket. Thanks for your input to these forums! It will work on 06 GT's as well. This is promising!

7. One very astute mechanic in England noticed a poorly machined surface on the ICV. He was able to fettle it and apparently fix the High Idle on that bike. We don't have any Fettler's here in the USA, They retired after the industrial revolution.

8. BMW has replaced at least one GT because of High Idle. Some posters have traded their GT's for newer models.

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Conclusions !!!!!

I think BMW knows they have a problem but won't admit to it but looking at the number of software upgrades since the introduction of the 05 K1200S should tell us something is up.
I believe the real fix is still in the works.

Disclaimer:
I do not know how many GT's have been produced to date nor do I know what percentage of those have High Idle Syndrome. Only BMW knows for sure.
Not all owners report good or bad experiences to a forum.
These are MY observations only.

Thanks for all of you who have posted whether good or bad.

Any comments or corrections are WELCOME.

Got to ask Dr. Greg if you would recommend a pacemaker to one of your patients if the device were manufactured by BMW or Bosch?

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
06 K1200GT
93 K1100RS
 

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Norris,

Great job! Glad somebody took the initiative and put in the substantial effort to do this. Thank you!!

Having followed all the threads on two of the sites, I would agree that your synopsis is spot-on. I can't think of anything you've missed.
 

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Excellent post. I experienced the stalls for the second time today after a day of High idle. This is really starting to annoy me.

Flash
 

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Very good summary although I am not sure I agree with not loading 9.1. My dealer loaded 9.1 with no other changes and the bike went from almost unridable when the high idle started to annoying only. Definitely better than before but not fixed, see my posts in High Idle BBS in Australia. I can at least keep riding whereas with the old software it was positively dangerous.

Let's hope BMW come up with a proper fix and do a recall to fix them all.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
BobD said:
Let's hope BMW come up with a proper fix and do a recall to fix them all.
Amen!

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
93 K1100RS
06 K1200GT
 

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I still don't buy the airbox warpage thing. If this is true, then how come it comes and goes? Plastic doesn't go that funky and warp back into a perfect shape for a leakage problem to reseal itself.

Not too sure on the computer change-out either. Software problems are usually repeatable. Hardware and mechanical less so. Even air in the water jacket could throw off the water sensor for a bit, or an injector hang which would fool the O2 sensor.

Dunno.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
GMack said:
I still don't buy the airbox warpage thing. If this is true, then how come it comes and goes? Plastic doesn't go that funky and warp back into a perfect shape for a leakage problem to reseal itself.

Not too sure on the computer change-out either. Software problems are usually repeatable. Hardware and mechanical less so. Even air in the water jacket could throw off the water sensor for a bit, or an injector hang which would fool the O2 sensor.

Dunno.
A agree with you. Also the ICV could hang. I have had 36 years of EFI and I have had two cases of Idle Control Valves going bad.

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
93 K1100RS
06 K1200RS
 

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I'm always curious about software updates as fixes. Over the years there have been many on different BMW models and as has been posted, on their own they give mixed results. It is is becoming extremely plausible in a modern computer literate society to assume everything is better with a software upgrade and many will believe it, which is what the marketing people want when they sell new bikes. They couldn't say, "Yes there's been a problem and we can't fix it yet" when you have money in your hands. They would rather buy more time on the warranty, let some go that don't notice, perhaps bring out a new model and bury the old one.

I wonder if the underlying causes of so many complaints are either not fully understood by BMW or they understand and the reasons are more expensive to get fixed than we realise. Going for software changes first is the cheapest and easiest option.



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!
 

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Nice job on the post Cooper, nice to have all this info in one place. :thumb:

voxmagna said:
I'm always curious about software updates as fixes. Over the years there have been many on different BMW models and as has been posted, on their own they give mixed results. It is is becoming extremely plausible in a modern computer literate society to assume everything is better with a software upgrade and many will believe it, which is what the marketing people want when they sell new bikes.
Couldn't agree more. I'm very skeptical of a "software fix" on just about anything mechanical like our bikes. On computers or electronics yes. But it's just too easy to say an upgrade will fix everything nowadays. My bike came with 9.0 and they took it to 9.1 at the first service. I don't think there was any difference at all other than the placebo effect of being told that it had new software.
 

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I hate to ruin the party but my 07 GT purchased 03/18/07 with ASC and the new ECU has done the "high" idle stick at least ten or more times. My wife and I just returned from a quick overnight trip and on the way home my bike exhibited erratic throttle response and idled at 2800 until I blipped the throttle. Idle then resumed its normal 1000 +-
We were on a two lane road, no cruise control used, ambient temps 80-85.

Mileage 4700

I love the bike and my wife thinks its the best two up bike we have ever had. I am learning to drive around its idiosyncracies but will be greatly relieved when BMW sorts this one out.

Mark in Chico
07 KGT Graphite
 

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Ditto ref new GTs... My son bought his a couple of months ago from a major dealer, and it has the new ECU. Within the first 600 miles he had the high idle. He brought it back to the dealer and they told him the only thing they did to fix it was a software upgrade. So far, it seems to be fixed.
 

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Ordered my new 07 in April, thinking these issues would have been resolved and when I took delivery of it in June, I was literally surprised by the high idle issue... going around a corner onto my street down shifted into second thinking the engine braking would slow me down a bit, but the GT was stuck at 3K RPM... scary... anyway that was very disappointing... It seems to me that after a long freeway run the GT is more prone to this high idle phenomena, as I went back to the dealership the day after my first service to trade out my grey seats for black, and after the freeway run from the office to the shop the GT did it again, but this time in front of my salesman and a service person. All I had to do was blip the throttle and she would stick at 3K for about 2 to 4 seconds. It did this twice for them to see. They told me it was an airbox issue and that this was the first 07 to show this problem. Then the sevice guy said he would order a new CPU for me. The guys at the shop said they would do everything to make things right for me, but it looks as if some of you guys have had this issue for over a year now... I guess I'm going to write a letter to BMW corporate.

PS Please sticky this thread
 

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Another High Idle First

All:

Have 7900 miles on my '07 GT (delivered in October) and hadn't experienced the high idle issue until this past Saturday.

Was taking an MSF Experienced Rider Course - temp around 80 degrees, and during one of the exercises the throttle stuck - exactly same RPM range and experience others had seen. This was after 2 hours into the course, so the bike was warm (noticed temp between 1/2 and 3/4 up the range) but......

Anyone see similar issues w/ high idle when the bike gets warmer? :dunno:
 

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mjkuhno said:
Anyone see similar issues w/ high idle when the bike gets warmer? :dunno:
I didn't have the high idle upto 10,000 km (6,200 miles). It came up after a long ride and comes back since then. And this only when the bike is warm.
The dealer is going to replace the steppenmotor (I hope it is the correct word in English).
He didn't speak about the airbox. We'll see when the part is in.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
*As of today I can not find any cases High Idle with the Second Generation 07 K1200GT. ECU = BMS-KP !!!!!!!!
Well so much for that statement!

Mark and Chuck,
You didn't ruin my party. Exchange of information is what this forum is all about.
I appreciate all input. My goal in this thread is to bring together everything known about this High Idle problem.

A friend of mine who is a BMW Automobile Service Manager (yes they do manufacture cars! ) told me the number one problem with their new cars is software updates!!! They update date the transmission and the radio and gps quits working! Three days later they another update arrives. Sounds like BMW software writers are busy these days!

Given enough time and input BMW will fix this problem but in the short run it makes thier product look bad.
Like my Dad said, "You can do all the testing you want but the REAL TEST is when it gets in the hands of the public."

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
06 G1200GT
93 K1100RS



Fast2UP said:
I hate to ruin the party but my 07 GT purchased 03/18/07 with ASC and the new ECU has done the "high" idle stick at least ten or more times. My wife and I just returned from a quick overnight trip and on the way home my bike exhibited erratic throttle response and idled at 2800 until I blipped the throttle. Idle then resumed its normal 1000 +-
We were on a two lane road, no cruise control used, ambient temps 80-85.

Mileage 4700

I love the bike and my wife thinks its the best two up bike we have ever had. I am learning to drive around its idiosyncracies but will be greatly relieved when BMW sorts this one out.

Mark in Chico
07 KGT Graphite
chuckwilmot said:
Ditto ref new GTs... My son bought his a couple of months ago from a major dealer, and it has the new ECU. Within the first 600 miles he had the high idle. He brought it back to the dealer and they told him the only thing they did to fix it was a software upgrade. So far, it seems to be fixed.
 

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OK - now I believe you guys

I have any earlier 06 GT. I had the bucking problem - would not hold 2k on the tach to save its life. After two visits got the upgrade to 7.1 and it fixed that issue. Then it developed the stubling when rolling on the throttle. It would start to "drop over" when accelerating out of a corner, then catch, spin the tire and try to take off. They updated the software to 9.1 last weekend. In stop and go freeway traffic the bike attempted to kill my and my son several times on the way home. It would randomly go from 1100 to 3000K even without my hand on the throttle! It would often hang at 3k for several seconds after letting off the throttle - then engine brake like all hell.

Reset the TPS and have gotten slight relief. You can still tell it has issues as it will not hold 3k smoothly in nuetral while sitting still. I live in MA and we have a very stringent lemon law here. Three visits for the same issue or they have the bike for over 14 days, they get 7 days to fix it once and for all or replace the bike and give a refund, my choice.

My dealer is driving down 100 miles to pick up my bike on Monday. They have been very responsive. I am going to push hard for a new bike as I am planning a month long ride through Canada and will not tolerate this happenng again.

Hope this gets resolved - I spend 6 hours removing all the farkles from my bike today before they take it.
 

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raybobb1 said:
as I went back to the dealership the day after my first service to trade out my grey seats for black,
Ray,
Sorry to hear of the idle problems. Hope everyone gets it sorted out.
How 'bout some pics of the bike with the black seats?
Regards
 

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Any chance of this high idle being caused by the cruise control?

My suspicion is still the engine's idle stepper motor though, or something funky with the throttle body plates/linkage.

Mack
 
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