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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I bought a 2007 K12GT with 36K miles a couple weeks ago. The bike looks showroom new without a single blemish. Beauty is only skin deep, however. On day 2 the front brake pad sensor failed. On day 5 the ABS pump failed.



The dealer who sold me the bike completed a 36K service before I took delivery. When I told them about the problems they were surprised.

I repaired the front brake pad sensor. The wire leading to the caliper was broken by a zip tie some gorilla over tightened at the factory. The dealer offered to install a new ABS pump for $1,500. I've read about stuck brushes in the ABS pump motor. I could do the repair myself, but I've decided to sell (dump) the bike and buy something else. I just don't trust the K12GT, fearing the next problem will leave me stranded at roadside.

I asked the dealer if they would accept the bike in trade for something else. They said no, not until the ABS is repaired. I don't blame them.

I've owned several BMWs over the years, the newest was a 2003. I never had a single problem. What happened to BMW quality?
 

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GeoffJ said:
I bought a 2007 K12GT with 36K miles a couple weeks ago. The bike looks showroom new without a single blemish. Beauty is only skin deep, however. On day 2 the front brake pad sensor failed. On day 5 the ABS pump failed.



The dealer who sold me the bike completed a 36K service before I took delivery. When I told them about the problems they were surprised.

I repaired the front brake pad sensor. The wire leading to the caliper was broken by a zip tie some gorilla over tightened at the factory. The dealer offered to install a new ABS pump for $1,500. I've read about stuck brushes in the ABS pump motor. I could do the repair myself, but I've decided to sell (dump) the bike and buy something else. I just don't trust the K12GT, fearing the next problem will leave me stranded at roadside.

I asked the dealer if they would accept the bike in trade for something else. They said no, not until the ABS is repaired. I don't blame them.

I've owned several BMWs over the years, the newest was a 2003. I never had a single problem. What happened to BMW quality?

Those are both very common issues with the GT. The "Gorilla" at BMW is named Hans. He was in charge of tightening that zip-tie, the fuel quick connect boss on the pump flange and torqueing lug nuts and rear caliper bolts into the wheel flange. The ABS can be fixed quickly by Module Master. You still have the fuel strip failure on the horizon to deal with :teeth . If I were shopping I would have done a little more homework on the model and then asked what had been addressed on the bike. Some beemers came out with few/minor issues and have run for years. Others, usually with an influx of "technology" have their issues. The GT is one of these.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
moymurfs said:
If I were shopping I would have done a little more homework on the model and then asked what had been addressed on the bike.
Before I bought the bike I asked the dealer if there were any issues with the ABS pump and final drive. There was no record of these items in BMW's dealer database. I bought what I thought was the best (1-owner) K12GT in my price range. The dealer had just completed a 36K service, all recalls were completed, new tires were mounted, and the paint looked showroom new.
 

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Well I don't doubt that for a minute. The dealer was honest...."No sir, THIS bike has never had any ABS issues."...(that we know of). The real life translation is: " Since it probably hasn't happened yet, there's probably a 75% chance that YOU will still have the ABS to deal with."
Heck, even BMW says there aren't any ABS pump issues. To be exact, the pumps work great, it's the crappy sticking electrical brushes that are the issue. Those issues aren't specific to the GT model either. But BMW has never added them to their "issue" list. I don't believe BMW ever admitted to issues with final drives.....but we all know those stories. The fix for the ABS is relatively simple. But BMW machined the motor to the pump housing and called it "unserviceable", hence, their fix is to replace the unit as a whole. I am surprised the dealer didn't suggest Module Master since there are reports that dealers sent the unit to them for the customer. Maybe it's only a few specific dealerships that really want to help the customer. You MIGHT get them (BMW) to admit to fuel strips, rear wheel flanges, cam chain jumping, switch gear (k1300 models) ONLY because they actually sent notices out.
If you are giving it back then it's a mute point, but I would want the dates the recalls were addressed.
IF you decide to stick it out, you will end up with a darn nice rocket..
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I came to an agreement with the dealer today. They offered to install a new ABS pump for $1,200, including parts and labor. I agreed to move forward. I mentioned Module Masters to the service manager. He strongly cautioned me against using rebuilt or used parts. Is his words, "I've seen too many of them come back." Also, since the dealer waived the labor charge in my repair, I would be on my own if a rebuilt part failed.
 

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Sorry this has been such a bummer for you.

The good news is that BMW parts come with a 2-year warranty, so this ABS pump will be covered for a while.
 

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GeoffJ said:
He strongly cautioned me against using rebuilt or used parts. Is his words, "I've seen too many of them come back."
Just FWIW, Module Master guarantees the part for 5 years (vs. 2 for BMW.) In fact a rebuilt Module Masters unit may well be a better part than OEM since they modify the motor brushes for improved reliability. Not saying you should change course, just that in this case your service manager may be uninformed.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
smiller said:
Just FWIW, Module Master guarantees the part for 5 years (vs. 2 for BMW.) In fact a rebuilt Module Masters unit may well be a better part than OEM since they modify the motor brushes for improved reliability. Not saying you should change course, just that in this case your service manager may be uninformed.
I mentioned Module Masters to the service manager. His comment is stated in my post above.
 

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GeoffJ said:
I mentioned Module Masters to the service manager. His comment is stated in my post above.
Now I'm scratching my head.... $350 vs $1200 5 years vs 2. I wonder just how a service manager would see too many coming back............IF they are warranted by MM... hence, MM would be doing the work and your Service Manager would never see them. I would steer you away from anything that took your money away from me also......

You spend your hard earned $$$$ any way you want. But your situation doesn't have to be as expensive/painful as the dealer wants.
 

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smiller said:
Just FWIW, Module Master guarantees the part for 5 years (vs. 2 for BMW.) In fact a rebuilt Module Masters unit may well be a better part than OEM since they modify the motor brushes for improved reliability. Not saying you should change course, just that in this case your service manager may be uninformed.
Ditto
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The service manager did not specifically mention MM. His comment about ABS modules coming back is based on bikes he's repaired using rebuilt and used parts in general. These parts were used at the customer's request.

The service manager cautioned against ABS modules and other electrical parts sourced from rebuilders, eBay, wrecked bikes, salvage yards and classifieds. He told me he's seen too many of them fail or not work at all. This is why I decided to go with a new module. And nothing against MM, but I don't want any weak links in a bike with questionable reliability.

I'm getting free labor. If the new ABS module fails, parts and labor will be covered by the dealer. If I did the repair myself, I'd consider MM. Problem is my schedule is too busy. When I have free time I'd rather ride than wrench. Fortunately, I have a Harley and Moto Guzzi to ride while my BMW is being fixed.
 

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GeoffJ said:
............. Fortunately, I have a Harley and Moto Guzzi to ride while my BMW is being fixed.
Yep, odds are one of those lead sleds will run on any particular day :)
 

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GeoffJ said:
And nothing against MM, but I don't want any weak links in a bike with questionable reliability.
As stated earlier, I wouldn't consider a MM rebuild a weak link, in fact one might well consider it superior to an OEM replacement that will still have the poor brush design that failed in the first place.
 

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First of all, the fact that it failed just five days after you purchased it, the dealer should do more than just give you free labour to repair it. I'd check your local laws regarding used vehicle sales, you might have a case for more if not full repair costs. Had you bought the bike from a private deal, you'd have little recourse, but typically commercial dealers are required to certify the vehicles they sell. A brake failure that quick would seem to indicate it may have been traded in for a reason. Whether or not they were aware of the issue, they may still be obligated to fix it.

Second, their motive for dismissing the rebuilt unit is likely based as much on the fact that the markup on the new pump is a lot better than the margin on the rebuilt for them.

Keep the bike, find a better dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
mcmxcivrs said:
A brake failure that quick would seem to indicate it may have been traded in for a reason. Whether or not they were aware of the issue, they may still be obligated to fix it.
I thought the same thing about the bike being traded in with a bad ABS module and front brake pad sensor. The dealer did a 36K mile service before I bought the bike. I'm surprised these issues didn't surface.

I bought the bike as is. There was no warranty, expressed or implied. The dealer has offered a split. I pay for parts, they provide labor at no charge. The repair will begin when the ABS module arrives.

Once the bike is repaired, I will decide if I'm going sell it.
 

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Neither of these failures necessarily would have shown up in any known diagnostic prior to failure. Buying any 8 year old complex machine brings with it some risk.
 

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mcmxcivrs said:
Keep the bike, find a better dealer.
Yes.

It is good business for an honest dealer to provide at least some warranty on any item they sell but it is not legally required. If the bill of sale does not specifically state 'as is' then there might be an implied warranty in some states, but if it does then there probably is no legal recourse.

Trying to give the benefit of the doubt, they might have changed the oil and such but perhaps didn't even test ride the bike in which case they might not have detected the brake failure since the ABS warning light doesn't clear until the bike is ridden. But that means that they did a '36 month service' and didn't even scan for trouble codes? The typical ABSII motor failure always stores at least an 'ABS low voltage fault' code and sometimes more as well.

.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
lhendrick said:
Neither of these failures necessarily would have shown up in any known diagnostic prior to failure. Buying any 8 year old complex machine brings with it some risk.
So what's the expiration date/mileage on a 2007 K1200GT? When does one sell, rebuild or avoid buying altogether?
 

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So what's the expiration date/mileage on a 2007 K1200GT?
For the bike you bought? I'd say its somewhere around the day before you saw it in the showroom ;)


When does one sell, rebuild or avoid buying altogether?
I think that's different for everyone based upon multiple personal factors. To name a few:

How much I like the bike (when it's running)
How much disposable income do I have that I'm willing to put toward it.
How much I like the way it's set up for me.
How much I like the color.
The list can on for pages....

I would be way more comfortable buying a used bike from someone who gives you a good/bad list. I know of zero dealers who would point out a paint scratch unless it was gold filled and added to the price they wanted out of you.
 
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