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Discussion Starter #1
There was a thread a while back that Ken from Evolutione posted on where he listed the tested engine output for the KS (190+ HP) and mods (including an electronic engine management system @ around $4k - $5K) Can anyone point me to the thread please.
 

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Well, I did a few searches an couldn't find it so I understand your problem!
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Found what I was looking for - 2 posts by Evoluzione 14 March 06 (Dimsport control box) and 3 Feb 06 (ECU interceptor box). Now that the latest engine management software upgrade is showing definite improvements a little more bang for the buck looks worthwhile. Easily found bolt-on power and torque gains with low speed manners looks good. Opening the engine for head mods is a major undertaking - not attractive.
 

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how much power is needed

Lenz,
I have to ask... how much power do you want? over 200 hp?

what do you want to use the bike for...riding or picking "fights" to the next stop light?

I ask because 167 to 175 ( crank shaft) is doable with a laser can & chip about for about 6 to 7 hundred dollars US. You would have to get 190 hp ( crank to realy see a difference) after that point.

maybe you need to look to the UJM's?


Just wondering!

look here for lotsa power! http://www.mab-power.de/turbowerkstatt.html?&tx_lzgallery_pi1[showUid]=104
 

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I've been giving power enhansements a lot of throught and have devided that loosing 25 pounds makes the most sense!
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Racegun said:
Lenz,
I have to ask... how much power do you want? over 200 hp?

what do you want to use the bike for...riding or picking "fights" to the next stop light?

I ask because 167 to 175 ( crank shaft) is doable with a laser can & chip about for about 6 to 7 hundred dollars US. You would have to get 190 hp ( crank to realy see a difference) after that point.

maybe you need to look to the UJM's?


Just wondering!

look here for lotsa power! http://www.mab-power.de/turbowerkstatt.html?&tx_lzgallery_pi1[showUid]=104
I guess my real issue is an engine hobbled by things like low flow induction and exhaust plus engine management that is compromised by nonsense emission targets. Emission targets for bikes while a "nice thought" have the same effect as an ant on an elephants
arse when compared to the greenhouse CO2 emissions of coal fuelled power and industry. Have a read of "The Weather Makers" by Tim Flannery to get fully informed on the very real issues of CO2 / Greenhouse gas...........unbiased and very relevant.

Enough of my personal irritations, I just see poor design outcomes and can't help myself. You mention a chip to go with a Laser can - what chip would that be ? I've had a look at the Dimsport site for an engine management alternative but have a feeling it would be like opening up a bag full of snakes - you'd better know what you're doing if you want to go there....garbled Italian / English translations of supporting documentation leave me cold.

What is a "UJM"....an Ultra Jooce Maker....I'm just a simple farm boy sir thets easy confused....please tell me what you mean. I'm looking for the most bang for the buck which means non-invasive, bolt-on performance parts. IMHO turbos are more trouble than they're worth.
 

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Lenz said:
What is a "UJM"....an Ultra Jooce Maker....I'm just a simple farm boy sir thets easy confused....please tell me what you mean.
A UJM is a universal japanese motorcycle.

So named because they're all pretty much alike...or were at one time.
The term has been around for a long time, I'm thinking at least since
the 70's.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Had a look at the turbos on that link - awesome engineering and output - a serious ripple effect on transmission and rider skill / healing ability. My wife would be collecting on my life insurance policy if I owned a turbo KS or KR.
 

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Lenz said:
Had a look at the turbos on that link - awesome engineering and output - a serious ripple effect on transmission and rider skill / healing ability. My wife would be collecting on my life insurance policy if I owned a turbo KS or KR.

I FEEL YA :hanged


With Kens stuff...he says 170 to the as$fault...is that enough?

HOW MUCH POWER DO YOU WANT?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Racegun said:
With Kens stuff...he says 170 to the as$fault...is that enough?

HOW MUCH POWER DO YOU WANT?
Ken's bolt on performance gear reaches the line in the sand for me in terms of cost, complexity of installation, potential transmission stress / failure, resultant output and rider ability - they clean up the relatively easily addressed issues.

Realistically the installation on the KS shown on the turbo site is so unobtrusive that I doubt anyone would realise what was behind the fairing - including the wife - so there wouldn't be any need to seek forgiveness for the installation. The idea of having 180+kw and 200+NM on tap (if I read the dyno charts correctly) stimulates my "Oh shit --- this is gonna HURT memories". The possibility of pilot error would likely increase along with the body part retrieval radius.
 

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Mods

Save you some time tearing the engine apart to make "improvements". From automotive machinists I know who have had a couple of BMW's automotive engines apart there really wasn't anything they could do internally to improve air flow. BMW had already 'over-engineered' the performance design and machining. They've looked at a few of BMW's bikes I've tested and thought that just looking at the engine design externally the bike's enginering was probably even better than the cars. You might raise the compression but your best bang for the buck would probably be by 'boosting' the induction system.
 

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personally I think the bike has enough speed in it. Lenz would be best served if he took a few race schools. That way he could get the speed out of it! That is unless, he is just looking for straight line performance... that skill is 1000 times more easy. For less than $1000.00 bucks, he could have 170 hp at the rear wheel. heck fire, the bike is already faster to 130 mph than almost every bike out there!
 

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MIMrBill said:
Save you some time tearing the engine apart to make "improvements". From automotive machinists I know who have had a couple of BMW's automotive engines apart there really wasn't anything they could do internally to improve air flow. BMW had already 'over-engineered' the performance design and machining. They've looked at a few of BMW's bikes I've tested and thought that just looking at the engine design externally the bike's enginering was probably even better than the cars. You might raise the compression but your best bang for the buck would probably be by 'boosting' the induction system.
speaking as a degreed automotive engineer, the head design is good but there are improvments to be made. after flow bench testing, we found the stock k1200s head will outflow the latest yamaha r1 head. but with careful port work in the bowl area, we found over 10% better flow on the intake & something like 8% better on the exhaust. this translated to 9 h.p./6 ft-lb increase on the headwork alone.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
MIMrBill said:
You might raise the compression but your best bang for the buck would probably be by 'boosting' the induction system.
At 13:1 standard compression, any further increases and it would probably run methanol / ethanol happily - clean, "green" and too fast to be seen !
.
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. You gettin fired up there yet Racegun ?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Racegun and the Sanctity of the Pristine BMW

Racegun said:
Racegun - methinks you doth protest too much - what are you doing passin around feelthy peektures of neekid turbos up close and personal with BMW motorcycles.

Enough of the chit chat - the simple truth my friend, is that optimising the performance and individual appeal of an already beautiful bike in the KS is a pleasure to which more people aspire - to some degree - than those of your limited outlook. Since when have motorcycles (albeit already highly developed motorcycles) been immune from modification designed to have a bike running to its potential. If there is no engine longevity compromise caused by a performance modification then "why not" if it pleases an individuals tastes and remains legal for a public road.

As to my riding skills or lack thereof, it could be suggested that ANNOINTING oneself with the grand title of "Racegun" and CLAIMING the accumulation of 35 years of riding does not give you a credible base from which to make your fatuous assertions of superiority.

In short.........BITE ME!
 

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evoluzione said:
speaking as a degreed automotive engineer, the head design is good but there are improvments to be made. after flow bench testing, we found the stock k1200s head will outflow the latest yamaha r1 head. but with careful port work in the bowl area, we found over 10% better flow on the intake & something like 8% better on the exhaust. this translated to 9 h.p./6 ft-lb increase on the headwork alone.
Very interesting. Seems very un-German engineerish. Were the increases actual or theoretical, flow bench only or operational? The reason I ask is because I've seen some theoretical head improvements that when but into practice left the walls so thin they cracked on fire-up.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Racegun said:
personally I think the bike has enough speed in it !
So what is it that a "racegun" does ? Isn't that one of those thangs with a big muzzle, short barrel, shoots its wad at the start of business and makes a lot of noise with no real substance to anything you hear from it ?
 

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MIMrBill said:
Very interesting. Seems very un-German engineerish. Were the increases actual or theoretical, flow bench only or operational? The reason I ask is because I've seen some theoretical head improvements that when but into practice left the walls so thin they cracked on fire-up.
as stated, we saw 9 hp/6 ft-lb increase on the dyno. we've done about half a dozen of these heads and they have all responded the same (or better). our original head on our project bike has been on for 8 months and been through two motorcycle magazine test riders so i feel it is pretty bulletproof.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
evoluzione said:
as stated, we saw 9 hp/6 ft-lb increase on the dyno. we've done about half a dozen of these heads and they have all responded the same (or better). our original head on our project bike has been on for 8 months and been through two motorcycle magazine test riders so i feel it is pretty bulletproof.
The full package of header, muffler, air filter, ECU management and headwork sounds like a logical approach with potential benefits across the rev range. I can only assume that the BMW head casting is built as designed and another emission based constraint is the reason for the less than optimum standard port casting.

I may have this wrong but as gas flow is optimised through induction, combustion and exhaust isn't this the operating condition for the most efficient fuel use - more power for less fuel therefore less CO2 etc per kilometre / hour. Choking an engine with emission control measures and making it less efficient ie more fuel required doesn't add up for me. Coal fuelled electricity production and industry is the real culprit and is many orders of magnitude more productive of greenhouse gasses than highly efficient motorcycles.
 
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