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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

Did a bit of digging around and can't seem to locate a ERC range diagram.

I'm goig to be takign it in April and I'd like to see what I'm in for and go practice a bit - does anyone either have one or kn ow whaere I can take a gander at one?

Thanks!
alow
 

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alowishus said:
Hi All,



I'm goig to be takign it in April and I'd like to see what I'm in for and go practice a bit - does anyone either have one or kn ow whaere I can take a gander at one?

Thanks!
alow
Good question. First thing you need to do is determine which ERC you'll be taking. Could be the old one, could be the revised one. The State of Ohio was kinda late in rolling out the newer ERC.

And, just wondering here, why do you feel the need to practice something like the ERC ahead of time....without benefit of the instruction you'll be paying for??
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It is the updated curriculum - just wanted to get an idea of what maneuvers we'd be working on...

You are correct - I paid to attend the class - don't know why doing research ahead of time would taint the class.....

Thanks anyway!
alow
 

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It's all in how you look at it

Eh...research would enable you to avoid any slightly embarrassing moments, because of your concentration on just the ERC cource before hand.

But, it's not about looking good...it's about showing you what needs improvement. Take the chance...let yourself "fail", and be called on it. Your increased focus on making it right down the road will serve you far better.



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alowishus said:
I paid to attend the class - don't know why doing research ahead of time would taint the class.....
I don't believe I came right out and "said" that research would taint the class.

But, now that you've brought it up... :)

Here's what I used to see when I was teaching MSF here in the great State of Ohio.
And, for the record, I focused strictly on the MRC/RSS and the later BRC classes.

You get a percentage of type A overachievers who absolutely refuse to leave their egos
in the trunk of their car and show up thinking that they're a "natural" at this motorcycle
riding thing. They don't want to listen to the instructor, they're busy eye-fookin their GF
( who's thaking the class with them ), or just otherwise being a disruption to peeps who ARE there to learn.

Or, you get the ones who have been riding for twenty years and just know for a fact that the demonstration YOU JUST GAVE can't possibly work that well cuz they've never done it that way.

Or, and here's the issue I have with your "research", they show up with a good idea of the actual layout of the course they 'll be riding, but NONE of the theory or technique behind why it will be ridden that way.

OTOH, the "new and improved" MSF curriculum is all about the students teaching themselves in a controlled environment, so getting the layout ahead of time may well work to your advantage :D


I taught a lot of students over fourteen years of playing instructor, the one's who did the best were the ones who managed to show up without any preconceived notions and actully tried the techniques we showed them.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The cynicism of K-bikes....

So I ask a simple question - I'd like to see a range diagram for the ERC course - even practice it if I got a chance.

I end up with people thinking I'm going to show off, etc.

Fact of the matter is - I'd like to know what the exercises actually are - is that too much trouble to ask? Apparently it is with alot of folks around here....

I understand what shook is saying - but it is implying that I am trying to "one-up" the class in some form.

This is the fundamental problem with this medium - people tend to think they know what people are REALLY asking, when in reality, sometimes, people are actually just tryin to ask an honest question.

I'll definitely think twice before asking assistance from the community - I don't need to receive grief when all I wanted was an answer to a question that I know people have experience with......

alow
 

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alowishus said:
So I ask a simple question -
" I understand what shook is saying - but it is implying that I am trying to "one-up" the class in some form."


Oh, puhleaze........nobody here has implied that YOU want to "one up" the class.



"This is the fundamental problem with this medium - people tend to think they know
what people are REALLY asking, when in reality, sometimes, people are actually
just tryin to ask an honest question."

Couldn't have said it better myself. You got an answer that you didn't like, and
immediately read more into it than was there.


"I don't need to receive grief when all I wanted was an answer to a question
that I know people have experience with......"

Again, I gave you an answer............AND, I actually provided you with some of the
"experience" you were looking for. Experience, I might add, from a perspective that
you might not get from other members of the site.

Why the whining?

Take the ERC, enjoy yourself. Hope you get your money's worth.
 

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The only way to get the layout and exercises in advance is if a Rider Coach
will let you borrow or copy his manual and range cards. The Rider Coach can't
do that.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That's all I needed to know - thanks Rick
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Actually thought about doing that - would be kinda funny :)
 

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alowishus said:
That's all I wanted to know - thanks Rick
Fixed.

No, you missed the point, and maybe you just don't see it any other way. The ERC course isn't about showing that you've got it, it's about showing what you are missing. Knowing the course in advance is just making it so you don't have any surprises. But, to me, that's missing the best benefit of taking the ERC. If you take it and everything's cool, you're naturally doing it all correctly. Knowing what's in store prevents the incidental "mistakes" that the coach can point out that you should avoid. Again, to me, knowing the course is going to mask flaws that taking the course is all about exposing.

But, that's just me.



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One thing I will suggest, is to practice doing figure eights in as tight
a space as possible. One of the exercises on the test requires this
and it seems to be the most problematic.
And... try to do it without trail braking.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Razel said:
Fixed.

No, you missed the point, and maybe you just don't see it any other way. The ERC course isn't about showing that you've got it, it's about showing what you are missing. Knowing the course in advance is just making it so you don't have any surprises. But, to me, that's missing the best benefit of taking the ERC. If you take it and everything's cool, you're naturally doing it all correctly. Knowing what's in store prevents the incidental "mistakes" that the coach can point out that you should avoid. Again, to me, knowing the course is going to mask flaws that taking the course is all about exposing.

But, that's just me.
Fine.

I don't want to get into a pissing match but people seem to continue to assume I'm some squid or something. I'm not trying to go into this so I can ace it and show how big of a dick I've got in front of some chick. I wanted to know what the range looked like so I could practice some exercises before hand.

So far the only constructive help I've gotten has been from Rick. Everything else has been regarding showing off or ace'ing the class - neither of which is helpful since that was never my intention for the class - not that anyone asked......

For as much as people extoll the virutes of practicing techniques, etc - people sure seem to have their panties in a bunch about actually being proactive about preparing for a class......

Like I said before - I'll think twice before asking questions again - this just doesn't seem to be the friendly community it once was - where answering questions were friendly, not stern lectures.....

Thanks for the help
alow
 

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alowishus said:
.....- people tend to think they know what people are REALLY asking, when in reality, sometimes, people are actually just tryin to ask an honest question.....
alow
Heh, I used to have a wife like that! She was always seeking the "real" message behind what I was saying. :)
 

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Razel said:
Fixed.

No, you missed the point, and maybe you just don't see it any other way. The ERC course isn't about showing that you've got it, it's about showing what you are missing. Knowing the course in advance is just making it so you don't have any surprises. But, to me, that's missing the best benefit of taking the ERC. If you take it and everything's cool, you're naturally doing it all correctly. Knowing what's in store prevents the incidental "mistakes" that the coach can point out that you should avoid. Again, to me, knowing the course is going to mask flaws that taking the course is all about exposing.

But, that's just me.
Now let me get this straight.....if the guy gets the range layout and practices the exercises he won't be getting the most out of the course? But if he goes in cold, flubs up some exercises so the Rider Coach can "provide guidance", then goes and practices after that, he will be getting his money's worth?

Am I missing something here? Other than providing an avenue for the Rider Coach to stoke his own ego by providing "guidance" to an experienced student I see no benefit to NOT practicing before hand. Hey, if he's GOT it, then he's got it! Get it?!

This is the same thought process I have found prevalent in MSF instructors in two States and the main reason why I gave up teaching/coaching. Too many instructor/rider coaches with big egos.

Now, that is not to say that there aren't some wonderful MSF Instuctors, now called Rider Coaches. Just seems to be damn too few of them. However, I would be the first one to recommend taking an MSF course.

But hey, if the guy wants to practice, let him practice! And what's with the BIG SECRET about the ERC range?

Hell, if I still had my range cards I'd scan the ERC diagrams and send them to ALOWISHUS.
 

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All you have to do is look!

Try the first link for some of the range info. The BRC is the layout shown but this is the basis for the ERC with some size adjustments done to accommodate the larger bike.


http://www.msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm?spl=2&action=display&pagename=Training%20Site%20Support

This link even has some of the course material that you will be covering.

http://www.msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm?spl=2&action=display&pagename=Library

ALL of this is freely posted on the site!!

As to the point of practicing, what makes this curriculum work is applying the correct technique with coaching as appropriate so that your skills improve and you can see/feel the results.

Take the class and enjoy. especially the kidney bean. EX 9.

Dwight-neo
Learned from Shook and still teaches others.
 

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alowishus said:
Like I said before - I'll think twice before asking questions again - this just doesn't seem to be the friendly community it once was - where answering questions were friendly, not stern lectures.....

Thanks for the help
alow
Sorry if you find my response overly critical. I was expressing my opinion "...that's just me". Rick agreed with you, so he's the only one presenting constructive criticism?
If you believe that my expressing an opinion contributes to making this an unfriendly community, that's your call...your dick size or ability to impress chicks while posing never seemed to fit the online persona you have, and I certainly wasn't painting that kind of picture. What ever perspective I had about the ERC is certainly lost at this point.



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yukon42 said:
Now let me get this straight.....if the guy gets the range layout and practices the exercises he won't be getting the most out of the course? But if he goes in cold, flubs up some exercises so the Rider Coach can "provide guidance", then goes and practices after that, he will be getting his money's worth?

Am I missing something here? Other than providing an avenue for the Rider Coach to stoke his own ego by providing "guidance" to an experienced student I see no benefit to NOT practicing before hand. Hey, if he's GOT it, then he's got it! Get it?!

This is the same thought process I have found prevalent in MSF instructors in two States and the main reason why I gave up teaching/coaching. Too many instructor/rider coaches with big egos.

Now, that is not to say that there aren't some wonderful MSF Instuctors, now called Rider Coaches. Just seems to be damn too few of them. However, I would be the first one to recommend taking an MSF course.

But hey, if the guy wants to practice, let him practice! And what's with the BIG SECRET about the ERC range?

Hell, if I still had my range cards I'd scan the ERC diagrams and send them to ALOWISHUS.
You certainly do a great job of building strawmen. Rider/coaches egos? I suppose there are some that do have an ego trip, is Alowishus going to be tramatized by this as well? I wouldn't bet on it.
And the Big Secret? News to me. If you find out what it is, please let us know.



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Razel said:
Fixed.

No, you missed the point, and maybe you just don't see it any other way. The ERC course isn't about showing that you've got it, it's about showing what you are missing. Knowing the course in advance is just making it so you don't have any surprises. But, to me, that's missing the best benefit of taking the ERC. If you take it and everything's cool, you're naturally doing it all correctly. Knowing what's in store prevents the incidental "mistakes" that the coach can point out that you should avoid. Again, to me, knowing the course is going to mask flaws that taking the course is all about exposing.

But, that's just me.
good point!!!!!!!!!!!! that is the best advice you can listen to..
 
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