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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello:

I have a problem that I would like some advice.

I have a GT with a stock heated seat. I recently had my Russell Day Long Seat refurbished with heat. The Russel Seat typically has its own switch mounted in the seat which I did not have them install as I planed to connect it up to my stock BMW control. However when I got the seat back I found a problem in that the Russell seat has only two wires coming out of the seat while the BMW stock setup uses a three wire combination working off of the handlebar control.

Is there any way I can connect my new seat to the stock control system (and thus have use of the duel heat level control os the stock setup) or do I have to just forget it and wire up a separate controller for the Russell seat. If I could not connect it up to the stock controler, I was thinking about installing a Heatroller using a mounted control on the dash.

Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated.
 

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Wired ...

Hanshi said:
...............the Russell seat has only two wires coming out of the seat........Is there any way I can connect my new seat to the stock control system (and thus have use of the duel heat level control os the stock setup).........
The Heat Troller could be supplied it's "hot" (power) wire via the stock handlebar switch's "low" wire. This ensures that the seat is "off" when the ignition is off. The draw of the Russel seat is only 1.5 amps, so the BMW wiring should be sufficient. (The BMW seat can draw slightly less than 2 amps at 14v with 7.4 ohms of resistance. It's 1.6 amps at 12v, but let's be conservative. Here's a neat and quick amp calculator. )

Another way to use the stock switchgear is to add the Heat Troller as described above and have the "high" switch setting bypass the heat Troller and power the seat with the full 12v current. Should the Heat Troller die one cold day a flip of the switch bypasses the problem until you have time to fix it.

No matter how it's done the seat needs to be powered form a source that's off when the ignition is off. Based on the amp draw the Russel won't overtax the BMW wiring, so using your stock switch is ceratinly doable (is that a word?). This link might help understand the stock wiring setup, but it isn't quite what you are after. (link is for a GT seat on an RS).

This would be a fun rainy day project. Good luck.


p.s. If you wish, the Troller could remain hidden under the seat or inside of the side panel. It's only function is to act as a solid state resistor (Does anyone make those? I'm more mechanical than electrical, but I can get by.). Once you determine a good "low" setting you wouldn't need access to the Troller when riding.
 

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Another, cheaper idea ...

I thought resistors were "solid state."

Hanshi, although I'm a mechanical guy, here's what I *think* would work: Just add a 2.5 Ohm resistor in series on the low setting wire. Based on Tim's numbers, the high setting on the BMW heating element provides 26 Watts of heating to the ol' backside. Assuming that the Russel seat heating elements have the same resistance (and that's a big if), then a 2.5 Ohm resistor in series with the Russel heating element will provide about 75% of the full heating power on the low setting. When you switch to high, the current will bypass the resistor on the low side and provide full voltage to the seat heating elements.

Based on the LED flashing on my heat troller, I think it works as a timing device, not as a variable resistor. I'm guessing that it applies full voltage to the heating element, but interupts the power based on the knob setting. So at full on, the power is never interrupted, and at a lower setting, the power is interrupted more and more. This is a guess, I haven't pulled out the ol' muli-meter to see what it actually does.

Disclaimer: None of the above has been validated for your specific conditions, but based on the casual numbers and information provided. If you attempt do this, and ruin the seat, or burn up the wiring or motorcycle and burn down the garage, its NOT MY FAULT. Consult a licensed professional or your BMW dealer if you are not comfortable.

V=IR, don't touch the live wire.

PS, how do you had "hard spaces" to this text editor? I tried to show an electrical schematic using keyboard characters, but the text editor throws out extra spaces.
 

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rhhall said:
I thought resistors were "solid state."
Ergo my "dunno". :confused: I meant to say one that doesn't get hot, if that's possible. But then, resistance is futile. ;) Hanshi, place the resistor someplace where it's OK if it gets hot. (i.e., not taped to the bottom of the seat or anything.)



Disclaimer: None of the above has been validated for your specific conditions, but based on the casual numbers and information provided. If you attempt do this, and ruin the seat, or burn up the wiring or motorcycle and burn down the garage, its NOT MY FAULT. Consult a licensed professional or your BMW dealer if you are not comfortable.
Ditto.



PS, how do you had "hard spaces" to this text editor? I tried to show an electrical schematic using keyboard characters, but the text editor throws out extra spaces.
I "draw" in Word and "Snagit", save as a jpg and upload the image. But that's a lot of work.
 

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rhhall said:
I thought resistors were "solid state."
No, they're passive. :teeth
PS, how do you had "hard spaces" to this text editor? I tried to show an electrical schematic using keyboard characters, but the text editor throws out extra spaces.
Cheap and dirty trick is to set the font to courier () at the beginning of the ascii art. Just have to remember to turn the font setting off at the end of the art diagram you're drawing so the subsequent text matches the starting text.



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OK, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I recently helped a friend with a heated seat install on an RS and he used the Word doc referenced in this thread. To our way of thinking, the document--and it's wiring plan--is wrong. The stock GT heated seat does not switch from one element ot the other to change heat level, it runs on one element in low setting and ADDS the second element IN PARALLEL on the high setting. This causes a REDUCTION in the amount of resistance in the seat element, resulting in MORE current flow and MORE heat. Somewhere at home I have an Excel document I sent my friend, it contained a quick and dirty wiring diagram showing how to do the above using a DPDT switch and the correct jumpering. I'll post it when I get home this weekend.....
So pull out your multimeters and start checking the circuitry on the GT heated seat, and check the voltage(s) being supplied to the two hot leads in the GT stock wiring harness connector. Both leads are hot when the switch is in the high setting....

Just another data point, fire away.....

Best,

GTRider
 

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GTRider said:
OK, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I recently helped a friend with a heated seat install on an RS and he used the Word doc referenced in this thread. To our way of thinking, the document--and it's wiring plan--is wrong. The stock GT heated seat does not switch from one element ot the other to change heat level, it runs on one element in low setting and ADDS the second element IN PARALLEL on the high setting. This causes a REDUCTION in the amount of resistance in the seat element, resulting in MORE current flow and MORE heat. Somewhere at home I have an Excel document I sent my friend, it contained a quick and dirty wiring diagram showing how to do the above using a DPDT switch and the correct jumpering. I'll post it when I get home this weekend.....
So pull out your multimeters and start checking the circuitry on the GT heated seat, and check the voltage(s) being supplied to the two hot leads in the GT stock wiring harness connector. Both leads are hot when the switch is in the high setting....

Just another data point, fire away.....

Best,

GTRider
Well, yeah. The switch for the comfort set on the GT turns on the low element, then turns on the high element as well. So, you get both. Guess I'm going to have to read that word document...but in the archives, there's one I wrote that offers four settings, if you are good at wiring switches. First, both elements in series, second the high resistance path, followed by just the low resistance path, then finally both. BMW recommends that the high setting be used long enough to get the seat really warm, then just run the low element to keep the seat toasty.

Single element seat heaters can be used with the BMW switch too. Tie the blue wire to the input of the controller, and the black to bypass the controller. Full heat on high, controller-only when on low.

Multimeter? BTDTGTT...



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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Razel posted:
"Single element seat heaters can be used with the BMW switch too. Tie the blue wire to the input of the controller, and the black to bypass the controller. Full heat on high, controller-only when on low. "

Thanks for the information from everyone.

One point I am not clear on is as per the directions above, how does the trhee wire BMW switch tie into a two wire single element seat (my Russell seat)? It seemes like most of the suggestions to date have focused on wiring a BMW two element seat to the BMW switch.

If I understand what everyone is saying then the two settings on the BMW switch are both full power on - one for each element. So connecting the BMW switch to a single element seat heater would only give me an on/off control using one of the BMW siwtch positions.

I also need to check with Russell as their web page indicates that the heating element has its own thermal switch that keeps the seat at a comfortable 85-90 degrees, and if installed in my seat (I did not have Russell install their on/off switch in the seat as normal as I did not want any switch on the seat but wanted to use the existing BMW switch), the I would not need duel heat settings or even the use of a heat troller to adjust the heat level.
 

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and now, page two .....

Hanshi said:
......One point I am not clear on is as per the directions above, how does the three wire BMW switch tie into a two wire single element seat (my Russell seat)?
One of the BMW wires is the ground. For you installation, the other two are just 12v hot. The difference is internal to the BMW seat, but the black and blue wires are just 12v power supply. Brown is the BMW ground. **

If I understand what everyone is saying then the two settings on the BMW switch are both full power on - one for each element. So connecting the BMW switch to a single element seat heater would only give me an on/off control using one of the BMW siwtch positions.
Yep. On or off. Brown/Black = one on/off, Brown/Blue = a second on/off. That's why I suggested the troller for the "low" and straight to the seat for "high". Otherwise you only need to wire in one of the switch settings, but I hate to leave a good switch unused.

I also need to check with Russell as their web page indicates that the heating element has its own thermal switch that keeps the seat at a comfortable 85-90 degrees, and if installed in my seat (I did not have Russell install their on/off switch in the seat as normal as I did not want any switch on the seat but wanted to use the existing BMW switch), the I would not need duel heat settings or even the use of a heat troller to adjust the heat level.
Your call on how to do it, but it's nice to have a "low" setting. 85-90 could be too warm for extended sittings.

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As for the wiring diagram linked prior being "wrong", we are talking resistance heating here, so there is no "wrong". You can wire it up upside down, sideways, backwards, it doesn't care (your Russel thermo switches could be different, but the BMW seat flat doesn't care. It's just a toaster with the sides removed.) FWIW, I defy anyone to ride for more than an hour with the BMW seat on HIGH, that's why so many of us only use the low element or high element, and never the two together as BMW does.

To further complcate the BMW side of wiring a BMW seat, I use the Black seat wire as ground, giving me a "low-low" setting and a stock BMW "low" setting. I find my self imposed low-low to be perfect for multi-hour rides on cold days. Your as.... , er, results may vary.

** NOTE: using the BMW switch and harness the Brown from the switch is the ground. Swap the seat wiring any way you wish, but the switch wiring is what it is: Blue and Black are 12v, Brown is ground.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all of the input and suggestions.

What I have found is that the Russell seat has an internal thermostat which cuts off power above 105 degrees and as such only needs a on-off switch to work.

The BMW set up on the GT was that both of the low and high settings are full power, but that the seat is a duel element. For low only one element is powered and for high, both elements are powered. Therefore all I will have to do is connect up my wiring to the low setting on the BMW switch and be done with it. I have Rob at Hermy's looking for a connector for me that will plug into the existing heating plug (three wire). I believe the connector comes with a coiled wire as I have on my GT seat - so I can basically duplicate the set-up.

Again thanks for the inputs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
New Heated Seat Question on GT

Well I finally got information back from my dealer. Have been trying to get the cord and plug (male) for the GT Heated Seat so I could use it to connect my Russell Heated Seat to the BMW handlebar control. Well the end result is the plug and cable is not available separately.

So I have come up with "Plan B" which I am installing a on/off switch (with LED) on the bike and wiring the seat to connect to my accessory fuse bus panel previously installed. In this manner I do not tough the BMW controls as there was also a question of the draw from the russell seat being much higher than the stock BMW seat. This approach will give me heat to the seat and not take a chance at frying the wiring harness on the GT.

I cut up a extra BMW Heated Vest cord I had around so I have a coiled cord from the seat ending in a two pronged vest plug section (so I can easily disconnect). Should work out real nice.

Thanks for all of the inputs.
 

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rhhall said:
I thought resistors were "solid state."

Hanshi, although I'm a mechanical guy, here's what I *think* would work: Just add a 2.5 Ohm resistor in series on the low setting wire. Based on Tim's numbers, the high setting on the BMW heating element provides 26 Watts of heating to the ol' backside. Assuming that the Russel seat heating elements have the same resistance (and that's a big if), then a 2.5 Ohm resistor in series with the Russel heating element will provide about 75% of the full heating power on the low setting. When you switch to high, the current will bypass the resistor on the low side and provide full voltage to the seat heating elements.
=8-O

Better calculate the power dissipated by the resistor before you use it for an application like this. Those little resistors you see at Radio Shack are 1/8 or 1/4 watt IIRC. (Hint LER => Light Emitting Resistor :D )

Devices like the heat troller turn the power on and off frequently enough so that you can't tell and the percentage on is the percentage of full heat you get. (Known as PWM => Pulse Width Modulation.)

-hank
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well I got the seat connected - just went directly to the fuse box for all of my accessories under the seat and installed a switch on the front left flarring (lighted so I know when it is on). Everything works great and I did not have to mess with trying to connect it up to the existing grip control.

I am attaching a photo of the new seat on my bike.

Thank everyone for all of your inputs.

PS: The seat works great the the thermostat also is a nice touch as it keep my butt warm but not on fire.
 

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2003 K1200GT heated seat control switch

Im bringing this bike back from a crash and the right control is a shambles. seems the right control switch for the 03-05 GT is only for the 03-05 GT and not common to any other bikes.. bummer, because the LT controls are easier to find..

Looking at the parts fische, it lists a combination switch with heater package to -04 and then a switch with grips and seat heater for -04 and up.

Does anyone here have a picture of the right hand control with and without the seat heater switch>> and could I use either on my 2003? say what if I install a heated seat...

otherwise and perhaps more important, it seems the LT had the seat heater switches mounted on the seat but could I use an LT right control multifunction switch on my 2003 GT handlebars?? it looks like the front brake master cylinder is common. does anyone have the wiring information I assume the connectors are different.. actually WHAT is the difference between the right control LT multifunction switch and the GT switch ???
 
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