BMW K1200, K1300, and K1600 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
250 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know anything about Nitro-Fill.It is used by NASCAR,airliners.jet bombers,and bicycle racers.It is supposed to keep tires inflated properly for longer periods than air.keep tires cooler,and increase tire milage.Just wondered how this would work for motorcycles if at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
We use Nitrogen on our race car tires. I believe the science is that it absorbs less moisture, therefore is not subject to as great a change in pressure as the tires heat.

Since we also have to use nitrogen for the on board air jacks, we always have a tank handy. I would think it would be more trouble than it is worth, to keep a nitrogen tank around just for street tires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
501 Posts
Road Rider in San Jose RoadRider offers this service. I haven't tried it though, I'm only down there once a year with the bike.

They say:

"Nitrogen is better...New here at Road Rider is tire service with Nitrogen Gas. This service is available separately for $2.00 per tire for those who wish to “supercharge” their tires. One of the many advantages of using nitrogen gas instead of ordinary air includes better stability of tire pressure. Oxygen escapes from a tire three to four times faster than nitrogen. You will also experience lower fuel consumption because better air pressure in tires improves rolling resistance and reduces the risk of running tires under inflated. Tires also run cooler when inflated with nitrogen gas as opposed to regular air. Furthermore, with nitrogen there is no more oxidation of inner liners and rust is eliminated. Nitrogen is a dry gas. With our nitrogen “manufacturing” machine, the moisture-laden air that is normally in your tires is separated from the nitrogen, which eliminates the condensation in your wheel. In sum, nitrogen gas will increase the life of your tire and stabilize your tire pressure."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
250 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The flyer I was reading said the nitrogen stays in the tires much longer than air so maybe a tankful at the house would do if not out for weeks at a time?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I use a nitrogen rich mixture of gas. This mixture has met my needs in many ways.

The notion of using another gas or gas mixture for tire inflation is intriquing?

do some gases permeate the rubber compounds of a tire more quickly, do some react with the compounds more readily, do some expand more or less readily with temperatures relative to others, how about the heat transfer and retention of gas? It almost takes your breath away, all these crazy questions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
438 Posts
Our local tire store uses it and I'm going fill up every tire I own with it.
 

·
no power in the 'verse can stop me
Joined
·
1,126 Posts
I personally use a proprietary mix of 79% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, and 1% other gases.

Use it in all my tires, car,bike, snowblower. It works really well. :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
395 Posts
I use that same mix with great results in all my tires and why anyone would ever run differently I cant imagine,
lets see less heat in my tires -- no thanks,
hhhhmmmmm to get to pure nitrogen you would need to flush all the air out of your tire and refill how many times? --- think you can ever get all the air out of your tires????

only benifit I could see would be less differential due to temps.

come on anyone here really think you can benifit by running pure nitrogen in your streetbike tires-- go take a class and get better skills.

or how about helium and make your bike lighter????
Jet bombers, airliners those tires go from one extreme to the other in temps.
Nascar maybe they have extreme heat issues that are reduced helping tires last longer in a race.
I havent heard of AMA or Moto GP using it, anyone here????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
shook sez said:
I personally use a proprietatry mix of 79% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, and 1% other gases.

Use it in all my tires, car,bike, snowblower. It works really well. :rolleyes:
Absolutely. The marketing BS that has no foundation in science will soon cause the nitrogen tanks to be removed from the garage and lawsuits to be filed. --Jerrry Stephenson, PE, physicist, nuclear engineer and I still remember boyles law from high school. That's all you need to realize what the right answer is here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
I too use the 79/20/1 mix of gasses in my tires. I prefer the Bavarian brand which is recommended for BMW machines. It has been extensively tested on the Autobalm at elevated speeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
shook sez said:
I personally use a proprietatry mix of 79% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, and 1% other gases.

Use it in all my tires, car,bike, snowblower. It works really well. :rolleyes:

This mixture also works well for my tires. If I am in a pinch, I can also use this mixture to fill my lungs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Guys, nitrogen works. Period.

I am an engineer in the mining industry and have personally conducted tire (or tyre) life testing with various 185-200 tonne payload haul trucks. The testing was conducted in Namibia, and certain sets of tires exhibited a 26% increase in tire life when compared to tires inflated with normal air. Anecdotal evidence gathered in West Africa and here in Western Australia supports those findings.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) recently completed a study into the physical and chemical properties of field aged tyres, including the mechanism of aging. Their conclusion: "The general pattern of change indicates that cross-link density evolution due to aerobic and thermal aging is the dominant aging factor."

Ford Motor Company followed up on the NHTSA study, and in May 2004 concluded: "The tyres that were the focus of the NHTSA study were found to be defective in part because the physical properties of the rubber had deteriorated due to oxidative aging. Studies conducted by this laboratory confirm the NHTSA findings."

I won't bore people with the other million mind-numbing pages of the various reports, but suffice say that the overall conclusion of the studies were that when N2 is used as the inflation media, the change in rubber properties is significantly slowed down or even halted. From a practical standpoint it is important to note that the presence of 1 atmosphere of air in the 96% nitrogen inflated tires did not significantly affect the results, as compared to the 99.9% nitrogen inflated tires. This is important for the average consumer because the need to purge existing tires completely of air before filling with nitrogen is not necessary.

More importantly perhaps is the finding that the tires deflate at a slower rate with nitrogen, which led to fewer cases of under-inflation, and therefore less carcass degradation and heat buildup. We also found that there was less pressure change in nitrogen filled tires as the tire heated up (probably due to less moisture in the nitrogen delivered by the generators).

Now! Whether this is of any use to squids is another issue. Mining tires are often cut and torn externally from large rocks, long before the interior of the tire has time to deteriorate. Similarly, I think I generally wear out the rear tire of the K12S long before any other deterioration has occured.

But I still pump my tires with nitrogen. Go figure.

Cheers

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
DrSand said:
Guys, nitrogen works. Period.

I am an engineer ...
Dave
Unless you can explain why it works, how it works, or some science behind your claims, you won't convince many people and the ones you do convince will be the PT Barnm classsic "...some of the people all of the time...".

--Jerry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Stephejl said:
Unless you can explain why it works, how it works, or some science behind your claims, you won't convince many people...
Jerry, I agree 100%. I am a skeptic by nature (which is almost mandatory in my profession!) but in this case the science and the field results agree.

As for the science behind the claims, I have uploaded the full Ford Motor Company report to the Files/Technical Documents section for your perusal. The abstract from this report probably says it best:

"Some of the main benefits of using N2 as an inflation medium are: higher air pressure retention due to lower permeability than O2 through IIR, NR, and SBR compounds (which leads to improved gas mileage); linear volume expansion with temperature because of nitrogen's inherently low water absorption characteristics; and the expected improvement in structural durability due to a significant reduction in rubber oxidation (oxidation caused by air from the cavity being forced into the tire carcass)."

I do think that the average Joe will be hard pressed to detect a difference - either in longevity or in heat induced pressure variation - because we generally wear the outside of the tires down before the inside degrades, and we don't heat the tires up enough to cause significant pressure variation (except, I suppose, if you're doing a high speed run through Death Valley at the height of summer...).

As for the heavy mining equipment that I deal with in open pit mining operations, the benefits are substantial. The bean counters wouldn't allow us to spend the money on the nitrogen generators if the improvement in tire life didn't offset the equation.

Hope this clears away some of the BS.

Cheers

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
796 Posts
I wonder how much, if any, an improvement you would see if you just used clean dry air?My first thought was nitrogen is dry, so water vapors forming gas or steam in a tire isnt an issue.Or is it anyway? Under pressure will water vapor change at the temps street tires reach? What temps are those? I have broke down a lot of car tires that I had to mop water out of,assuming its from condensation in the air tank and the tire itself.So would clean,dry standard air,from a air compressor with a decent filter and dryer work almost as well?
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top