Oil Analysis - Return of the Sinth

5291 Views 20 Replies 10 Participants Last post by k1200sforme, Dec 11, 2005

Catatafish

Discussion Starter · Oct 19, 2005

Well last night, at 6190 miles, I treated my S to 4 quarts of the new and approved BMW Super Synthetic 15W-50 just in time for a 400 mile a month corrosive winter. I bottled up a sample of the 2800 mile dino and sent it in and I should have my second oil analysis back from Blackstone by Friday evening. I'll post the results as soon as I get them but for those of you who missed it, here was the first report. See thread and attachment.

http://www.k-bikes.com/ubbthreads/s...=K1200S&Number=120437&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

I figure sometime around February I'll send in my first sample of the synthetic and am anxious to see what differences there are, particularly in the TBN (total base number).

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

kl3640

· #2 · Oct 20, 2005

Feel?

Cat, how does the bike actually feel with the synth in it? I recall that with my first intermediate oil/filter change at 3,600 miles that the bike instantly felt smoother in both power delivery and shifting, as well as just the general feel and sound of the engine.

Did the change to synthetic make the bike feel better than even a regular swap of mineral oil?

Stephejl

· #3 · Oct 20, 2005

Todd,
Sorry I'm getting in late on this discussion. What are you trying to accomplish with this oil analysis? Anyway, it's very interesting. Thanks for posting it.

Was the oil changed at 600 miles? If so, I would be a little concerned about the high Al and Fe after that. Most wear in should occur in the first 10 to 100 miles. If this test comes back with similar levels then you'll know whatever was wearing has stopped. I'd also wonder about the low viscosity. I probably would have changed the oil when I got this report back. What brand of oil is it?

Note that the TBN is only the ability of the oil to absorb acidic combustion products. This testing doesn't address the levels of additives such as ZDDP which are important and deplete with mechanical action.

Cheers,
Jerry

Catatafish

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 20, 2005

The bike feels no different than it did with dino. So either it's a psychological phenomenon (sort of like your car feels like it runs better after you wash it) or I'm just not that sensitive.

Jerry,
What I'm trying to accomplish is:
1) Having an awesome detail of maintenance come selling time.
2) Having pre-warning if there's fuel leaks, antifreeze leaks, water leaks, etc.
3) Having pre-warning if a bearing is deteriorating.
4) Having pre-warning etc etc. It's basically a pre-warning system and the metal that is high will clue you in as to what is about to break.
5) After several analyses, the Lab will trend and tell me how many miles I should be able to go next time before the change.

Oil used was BMW 10W-50. Yes I changed it at 600 but I never sent that sample in. Although most "ring seating" might occur in the first 100 miles, Iron and Aluminum wear occur far longer than that. It took almost 10,000 miles for my car numbers to settle down. According to Blackstone, this is normal wear so far, but we shall see!

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Stephejl

· #5 · Oct 20, 2005

Catatafish said:
Jerry,
What I'm trying to accomplish is:
1) Having an awesome detail of maintenance come selling time.
2) Having pre-warning if there's fuel leaks, antifreeze leaks, water leaks, etc.
3) Having pre-warning if a bearing is deteriorating.
4) Having pre-warning etc etc. It's basically a pre-warning system and the metal that is high will clue you in as to what is about to break.
5) After several analyses, the Lab will trend and tell me how many miles I should be able to go next time before the change.

Excellent plan. These are exactly the type of things that oil analyisis is great at. We use it at my industrial facility to monitor the health of the equipment, not the health of the oil (other than it will tell you if you have contamination in the oil.). Some folks think it is for figuring out oil change intervals. I've never seen an oil test that would tell you that. Thanks again for sharing your results.

Also I'm glad to hear the higher iron and AL is normal.

--Jerry

dbw

· #6 · Oct 20, 2005

Anyone know where in Canada this can be done? I just bought a K-s yesterday and would like to track all this right from the beginning. Thanks. Dave

Catatafish

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 20, 2005

Here you go Dave. It's very painless and convenient. Mom and Pop organization, been around a long time, great customer service. The more of us that use this, the better baseline will be established. Funny thing, they commented that this bike is more like the F650 due to the Aluminum and Iron ratio and the wet clutch configuration.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

BeemerDude

· #8 · Oct 20, 2005

I've used these guys "Blackstone-Labs" to perform oil analysis on my Cessna. They are well known in the Aviation industry. Good reputation and good data.

jpalamaro

· #9 · Oct 20, 2005

Make sure you let us know . . . some of the guys on the LT forum very high on oil analysis; Am I mistaken, haven't looked at the manual on this, but (I think I am thinking of my buddy's HD) the tranny and the engine can use the same synthetic!

jpalamaro

· #10 · Oct 20, 2005 (Edited)

In the world of motorhomes and BIG DIESEL engines there are slow filtration devices that actually use a roll of paper towels as an oil filter, in addition to high-volume filtration. With these paper towel filters and synthetics, and of course OIL ANALYSIS PERIODICALLY, they are achieving 200,000+ miles oil changes. I guess much like a urinalysis and/or blood work, much can indeed be told by analysis.

dbw

· #11 · Oct 20, 2005

Thanks for the info. Plan to pick up the K-s tomorrow and do the first oil change Mon or Tues. Be interesting to track the oil from new. Dave

Catatafish

Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 1, 2005

Here it is gents. Enjoy.

Second oil analysis from 3rd oil change. I ran 10w-50 BMW dino, just like last time. Note the fuel in the oil. Any ideas what causes this? Also note the molybdenum went UP from last time. Previous value 1, current value 19. I don't understand this either. Aluminum and Iron are both down and within "average" for this type of engine. I believe they're using the F650 BMW engine as closest comparison as it shares the wet clutch design.

Once again I sheared the oil and the fuel in it assisted with this. I ride 50% slab and 50% aggresive twisties, bordering on track day RPM and shifting values. During that type of riding, the RPMs are seldom below 8,000.

In 4 months or so we'll see how the BMW super synthetic fares as that's what I put in it this time around.

Cheers.

Stephejl

· #13 · Nov 2, 2005

I don't understand the fuel either but it appears to be lowering your viscosity and flashpoint. The synthetic oil will eliminate the flashpoint concerns but if it were me I'd try to get to the bottom of that issue. Of course if it were me, I probably would be unaware of the issue since I probably wouldn't be testing my oil...thanks again for doing it and posting the results.

Perhaps someone else who knows more about these engines will have a suggestion but it seems to me the most likely way for fuel to get in is through some sort of breather system like a PCV valve on a car engine. But with fuel injection, that doesn't seem likely either. I've heard of injectors leaking fuel into the cylinder and it could run by the rings...but you'd see billowing black smoke from one cylinder when you started it. One guy on an Oilhead board recently had hydraulic lock when his cylinder filled up.

I'd show the results to the dealer and see if they have an answer for you.

My concern would be that the fuel contamination could get worse with bad results. If you check your oil frequently, you'll notice if you get real significant fuel contamination when the level raises.

--Jerry

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Spinner

· #14 · Nov 2, 2005

Todd,
With the Moly levels up, I'm curious as to what oil you used on the prior change? I would expect it wasn't the same as on the first change. On my analysis at 3,600 miles, my moly was at 31 with BMW oil.

The TBN at 5.3 is awesome. If the fuel wasn't an issue that TBN would warrant an extended change interval. As you can read in my analysis (attached), Blackstone recommended a 5,000 mile OCI with a 3.3 TBN.

I'd watch the fuel - maybe the rings haven't fully seated yet. Do you engine brake alot?

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Catatafish

Discussion Starter · #15 · Nov 2, 2005 (Edited)

Dave,
I used 10W-50 BMW dino on my 600 mile, my 3000 mile and then at 6000 I went to BMW synthetic.

I engine brake tons. What effect would that have?

Thanks for the tips.

Todd

Just got through reading that moly is an additive and also used to coat new rings. I'm speculating the elevated moly in my case was the ring coating finally wearing off but I wouldn't think it would take 6000 miles for that to happen but who knows.

dbw

· #16 · Nov 5, 2005

Sent off my oil from the first inspection/oil change. I think I will send a sample off each time. Be interesting to read and may enhance resale value. Dave

rubbert

· #17 · Dec 11, 2005

Second change @ 3000mi

When I did my second change (3000miles no wait longer than that no matter what book says) the metal on the plug freaked me out. I called my mechanic with fear in my voice. He said no big deal... Easy for him.

The 6 was done by the dealership with nothing unusual showing on plug or other.

Jerry (mechanic) thinks we will wait till the 12 to change to synthetic.

I have 7+ any no problems at all.

k1200sforme

· #18 · Dec 11, 2005

Oil Report

I have my second oil report from Blackstone and like Catatafish my report says,"1.3% of the sample was fuel". 10w-50 dino oil and this sample had 3,363 miles on it. Also the moly was up from 6 to 35! Report states that except for fuel the engine is wearing nicely. This oil was used to travel from CT. to Nova Scotia and back, not exactly the "excessive idling or lots of city driving" as the report suggests is the cause. Not realy sure what to think but will talk to dealer and maybe get some input.

dbw

· #19 · Dec 11, 2005

Oil Question

Just noticing the oils being used. Are the BMW oils any "better" than the others? At my first oil change the dealer used Yamalube 20-40 stating it was good oil. I deffered to his judgement. Sent the first oil off for analysis and will continue to have it analized.. I've seen in varios threads 15-50 and 10-50 plus some changing to synthetic being used as well. I am interested in thoughts here. Thanks. Dave

rickd

· #20 · Dec 11, 2005 (Edited)

dbw said:
I am interested in thoughts here. Thanks. Dave

I have never heard of an engine failure from using any brand name oil. The "best" oil is the one you choose. I used dino oil for 10,000 miles before switching to synthetic. I've used 20W50 viscosity exclusively, BMW (dino), Golden Spectro (synth blend), BMW (synth), Mobil 1 V-Twin (synth), Castrol Syntec (synth), and Valvoline SynPower (synth).
HTH

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