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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I personally believe the 12S and 12R have a separate and distinct personality. Obviously BMW believes that hence two different models.

And while they share much, bike-wise, I think the riders are somewhat different since they purchased one model over the other. To mix the two into one forum dilutes the integrity of the membership and as such can and will be detrimental to membership in either forum.

Unless I missed something, and I will take full responsibility, seems ADMINS and MODS could have polled the membership.

My OPINION.
 

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jpalamaro said:
I personally believe the 12S and 12R have a seperate and distinct personality.......

Unless I missed something, and I will take full responsibility, seems ADMINS and MODS could have polled the membership.

My OPINION.
Only 64 total post on the K1200R fourm was the basis of the decision. By having a different forum for every model made it dilutes the forum page and make site reading more difficult.

Comments are always welcome. We're just trying out some things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Still doesn't make sense to me. If I were a K12R rider I would be looking for other K12R riders; to have to sift thru the 12S/R forum for K12R issues makes it even more difficult and would most likely diminish my interest in the forum. Likewise, the 12S rider may have specific issues relative to the 12S, why have to wade thru (granted, very few) K12R issues?

If indeed the 12R is stuttering in membership and perhaps sales, what better way to perhaps drive a nail in the coffin. Let the 12R people have their forum and the 12S their forum.

FWIW I personally will visit the integrated forum less because a bit of my identity has been removed.
 

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64 posts possibly represents one per R in N.A. Not a bad record in my opinion. Personally, I think your decision is a bit premature.

While the S and the R are technically similar I have found that the 'flavour' of the ride, the owners expectations, and the reaction of the public are very different. In the past I typically glance at both forums but, as an R enthusiast, have appreciated the separate distinction.

From my perspective dilution is what your action has accomplished, not avoided.
 

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I would agree with both John and Shaun above, heck at 64 threads the R section had as many as The Next Gen GT, Other K Bikes and R bikes combined.
It is a different focus and should have a stand alone section, I enjoyed perusing both in the past.
 

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It won't matter til I read a post and can't tell if the post is about a S or a R. So I am of the opinion the R folks should have their own section.
 

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We're still tweaking.

Remember folks, we are still tweaking the site. K1200r/s isn't set in stone. We are just trying different stuff. We do listen to the input from you folks believe it or not. :bmw:
 

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Combining the S & R forums is indicative of management's desire to create homogeneity.

Perhaps their subjective experience as motorcyclists create, in their [own] imagination, the notion that as motorcyclists we all think like they do?

Whatever their reasons, the combination of the R & S forums, eliminating JoMomma, and heavy handed warnings of censorship combine to diminish diversity, limit the scope of intelligent conversation, and tailor content to less and less interesting substance.

I might add, having just witnessed grumbling in the "Campfire" forum [regarding the loss of interesting debate], the fact of what appears to be an exodus of former contributors. It appears members would like to be treated like adults, capable of managing their comments, battles and curiosities. Perhaps management doesn't understand the members of this forum, in much the same way religious ideologues fail to understand the many faces of god?

Or perhaps they simply don’t care? One thing is certain, management of this forum is not a democratic process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Faust said:
Combining the S & R forums is indicative of management's desire to create homogeneity.

Perhaps their subjective experience as motorcyclists create, in their [own] imagination, the notion that as motorcyclists we all think like they do?

Whatever their reasons, the combination of the R & S forums, eliminating JoMomma, and heavy handed warnings of censorship combine to diminish diversity, limit the scope of intelligent conversation, and tailor content to less and less interesting substance.

I might add, having just witnessed grumbling in the "Campfire" forum [regarding the loss of interesting debate], the fact of what appears to be an exodus of former contributors. It appears members would like to be treated like adults, capable of managing their comments, battles and curiosities. Perhaps management doesn't understand the members of this forum, in much the same way religious ideologues fail to understand the many faces of god?

Or perhaps they simply don’t care? One thing is certain, management of this forum is not a democratic process.
David, I am not a television afficianado but was a Seinfeld (still) addict and have recently started watching Larry David's, Curb Your Enthusiasm. And of course not only was Larry the main writer of Seinfeld, but played George Steinbrenner's back. Any, should you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm on HBO I could just imagine Larry's commentary on the goings-on..

As usual, your posts are inciteful, arrogant, candid, and refreshing.

Best Regards
 

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Huh

I've owned 15 bikes over 37 years; 8 BMW's. I browse, post and 'JoMomma' on several current fora. So with those weak credentials, I ask, " Who cares?". It's a message board with threads. Log-on, read, comment, leave.
 

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How's this for being PC ???

Faust said:
Combining the S & R forums is indicative of management's desire to create homogeneity.

Perhaps their subjective experience as motorcyclists create, in their [own] imagination, the notion that as motorcyclists we all think like they do?

Whatever their reasons, the combination of the R & S forums, eliminating JoMomma, and heavy handed warnings of censorship combine to diminish diversity, limit the scope of intelligent conversation, and tailor content to less and less interesting substance.

I might add, having just witnessed grumbling in the "Campfire" forum [regarding the loss of interesting debate], the fact of what appears to be an exodus of former contributors. It appears members would like to be treated like adults, capable of managing their comments, battles and curiosities. Perhaps management doesn't understand the members of this forum, in much the same way religious ideologues fail to understand the many faces of god?

Or perhaps they simply don’t care? One thing is certain, management of this forum is not a democratic process.
Judging form your profile, where anyone can view the post you have made, I would have to guess that this just isn't your type of site. I can't do it as an Admin, but if someone would tell you to fuck off, I'd probably ignore it.

There. That ought to liven things up. :D
 

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Another KR rider

I also agree with Shaun, John and Karlb that a separate forum makes this site more valuable. In part because I personally don't want to have to scan the K/S forum for relevant information but also the band of KR riders, few as we are, do have different issues to discuss than the KS side.

Having said this, we do need to speak up and generate more information about this bike. LOCUS, you were a fountain of breaking news and interesting topics about the KR. Are you on vacation??

Lastly, it is discomforting that this change was made without any prior notice to the forums.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Interesting perspective. And, unless I am wrong as I have not scanned the sites, this and the prior I-BMW.COM was/are the (again, to the best of my knowledge) only site dedicated to the K12R. And, whatever the number sold, if I were an R owner and the numbers relative to the S were very low, I would not want to be grouped into the S group. But I said that already.
 

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John, we are listening ...

jpalamaro said:
I personally believe the 12S and 12R have a separate and distinct personality. Obviously BMW believes that hence two different models.

And while they share much, bike-wise, I think the riders are somewhat different since they purchased one model over the other. To mix the two into one forum dilutes the integrity of the membership and as such can and will be detrimental to membership in either forum.

Unless I missed something, and I will take full responsibility, seems ADMINS and MODS could have polled the membership.

My OPINION.
OK John, we are listenng. The combination was based on the similarity of the bikes and sharing of information. Bad call perhaps.

The post can be split back up. There is no conspiricy, no disinterest in anyone's opinions, and no desire to exclude input. Quite the contrary, we are working hard to get input. Sometimes the easiest way, like it or not, is to make a change and duck. ;)

We will occasionally screw up. We will also listen. (You might also notice that Faust pissed me off. OK, so I'm human. Bad week. But this was a combined thread discussion, not a site bashing.)
 

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I Agree... Apples/Oranges

I would agree with the rest of my peers.. the bikes are as different as night and day.. each needs their own forum.. My omnipotent 2 cents..
 

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CABNFVR said:
Judging form your profile, where anyone can view the post you have made, I would have to guess that this just isn't your type of site. I can't do it as an Admin, but if someone would tell you to fuck off, I'd probably ignore it.

There. That ought to liven things up. :D
A little testy eh?
No worries though. This is definetly my kind of site.

psssssst....get a little closer now.....you're so easy.
 

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jpalamaro said:
David, I am not a television afficianado but was a Seinfeld (still) addict and have recently started watching Larry David's, Curb Your Enthusiasm. And of course not only was Larry the main writer of Seinfeld, but played George Steinbrenner's back. Any, should you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm on HBO I could just imagine Larry's commentary on the goings-on..

As usual, your posts are inciteful, arrogant, candid, and refreshing.

Best Regards
Hey John,

How about that Larry!
Hope you're having fun out there, and have a great holiday!
Thanks for the complimentS.
Did I tell you I bought a new Bently?

David
 

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Faust said:
Combining the S & R forums is indicative of management's desire to create homogeneity.
No, it was a desire to eliminate forum clutter. It was an answer to the number of people who indicated that they felt the site was too fragmented.
Perhaps their subjective experience as motorcyclists create, in their [own] imagination, the notion that as motorcyclists we all think like they do?
Nope.
Whatever their reasons, the combination of the R & S forums, eliminating JoMomma, and heavy handed warnings of censorship combine to diminish diversity, limit the scope of intelligent conversation, and tailor content to less and less interesting substance.
Heavy handed warnings of censorship? Where have you seen that?
I might add, having just witnessed grumbling in the "Campfire" forum [regarding the loss of interesting debate], the fact of what appears to be an exodus of former contributors. It appears members would like to be treated like adults, capable of managing their comments, battles and curiosities. Perhaps management doesn't understand the members of this forum, in much the same way religious ideologues fail to understand the many faces of god?
The grumbling you witnessed is the compliment to the grumbling about the content of JoMamma when it was around. The exodus of members because JoMamma exiisted has been reversed due to the elimination of the forum, possibly causing others to leave. It just goes to show, you just can't please all the people all the time. It occurs to me that if one is "capable of managing their comments, battles and curiosities", then they would certainly be able to contribute to "interesting debate" in Campfire, while remaining civil - civility went out the window frequently in JoMamma.

Or perhaps they simply don’t care? One thing is certain, management of this forum is not a democratic process.
Actually "they" do care, but you're right, it is not a democratic process. It is a process based upon the best guess as to what will work the best for the largest portion of the membership, not just the most vocal portion.
 
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