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Re:Fluids changed

So I just changed out my transmission oil and differential oil today for the 1st time (7000 miles) and while it was technically not that big of a deal and I mean this in the most loving way possible to my German made bike, BUT...... What the hell where they thinking when they designed the drain plug and it's location on this thing!? 1st off there is now way you can get a drain pan under it with it on it's center stand, 2nd you can't put a drain pan under it when it's off it's center stand and 3rd who the hell was the knuckle dragger who torqued the drain plug down to 3000 tons per squire inch! I thought the stupid thing was wielded on! And the drain plug for the differential was not to far behind, I think it was 1000 tons per square inch but I wasn't real sure as I think I had an embolism going on right about that time. On the bright side after changing everything over to Mobil 1 75W/90 it shifted smoother then I ever remember but I was a little worried about what I found on the magnet of the differential plug magnet, it had a big "button" of pillow soft almost rubbing compound fine residue on it, not sure what to think of that but other then that the oil coming out looked quite clean, I still want to put in some Royal Purple Gear Max Oil for both but I couldn't get my hands on any so I'll do it next time. Thanks for letting me vent.:)
 

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Never Did It Yet

As a new owner of a GT I have never did the service thing. So I am just reading posts to hear all the stories. I need to obtain a service manual in order to find out many items. You mentioned that you use Mobil 1, I see that Mobil 1 is the perfered oil to change to. How many quarts for the engine and what do you use in the drive line and how much.

Thanks
 

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magellan44 said:
As a new owner of a GT I have never did the service thing. So I am just reading posts to hear all the stories. I need to obtain a service manual in order to find out many items. You mentioned that you use Mobil 1, I see that Mobil 1 is the perfered oil to change to. How many quarts for the engine and what do you use in the drive line and how much.

Thanks
All of those quantitys are in your maintenance booklet.
Engine oil with filter is just under 4 qts., rear drive 230cc., transmission is 600cc.
Fill your oil filter with fresh oil before installing. Switch over to synthetic motor oil after 12,000mi.
Bruce C
 

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Thanks Bruce. I have read the enclosed booklets but some how over looked this issue. One more question. Do the dealers have service manuals for the newer k models. I was looking for something online but came up empty. I have been at the dealers a few times and always forget to ask. One site said Clymer was in the process of publishing one for March of 06. I been seeing a few posts of CDs but they seem to cover all kinds of BMWs and I was wondering if they were the real thing or something that someone pirated. I don't want to go exploring on the GT until I find a good manual. I have a few miles to go before I should need any service but, winter is on the way and I thought that when time permits I would do so.

Thanks
Ben
 

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magellan44 said:
As a new owner of a GT I have never did the service thing. So I am just reading posts to hear all the stories. I need to obtain a service manual in order to find out many items. You mentioned that you use Mobil 1, I see that Mobil 1 is the perfered oil to change to. How many quarts for the engine and what do you use in the drive line and how much.

Thanks
Ben,
As an Rbike owner I hang out on the oilhead discussion boards. Those guys do a lot more of their own maintenance than most kbike owners seem to. Also, there seems to be more of us geeks (yes, I'm one of them) hanging out there. So there has been a lot of discussion of synthetic oil there and I'm going to sum it up here for you (realize this is my conclusions based on a lot of various opinions but there was a lot of discussion by an expert working or a big 3 automaker who works in the lab where they test oils in engines):

Synthetic oil is needed if you run oil temperatures above 300 F. We don't. Using synthetic to extend your oil change intervals is a BAD idea. Two reasons: Combustion byproducts build up in the oil making it very acidic and the main friction inhibitor, ZDDP, is consumed by mechanical action and may deplete. ZDDP seems to be the big improvement in oils that has allowed car engines to routinely go more than 100,000 miles (remember when people used to brag about that?). The new API SL oil has slightly less ZDDP in it so oil rated SG or SH might be a better choice but isn't a big deal if you make sure to change your oil on schedule.

Synthetic oil meets the same API specs as the dino stuff so it is just as good. I've seen no evidence that is is better at low temps. I recommend saving your money and using a name brand cheap oil of the proper viscosity and changing it on schedule. I also recommend doing it yourself. To me it is easier to change it myself than it is to get the bike to the dealer during service hours and sit there while they change it, or worse, leave it all day. You'll also save some bucks.

Cheers,
Jerry
 

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magellan44 said:
Thanks Bruce. I have read the enclosed booklets but some how over looked this issue. One more question. Do the dealers have service manuals for the newer k models. I was looking for something online but came up empty. I have been at the dealers a few times and always forget to ask. One site said Clymer was in the process of publishing one for March of 06. I been seeing a few posts of CDs but they seem to cover all kinds of BMWs and I was wondering if they were the real thing or something that someone pirated. I don't want to go exploring on the GT until I find a good manual. I have a few miles to go before I should need any service but, winter is on the way and I thought that when time permits I would do so.

Thanks
Ben
Ben
There are no printed manuals that I know of for the newer bikes.
I got a cd from Jerry at "Pirates Lair". I think I paid around $90.00(don't quote me), and it is a BMW manual specifically for the late "K" bikes, also available from Motobins in the UK. It was printed? in 2001 but covers everything except your electric windscreen, heated seat and maybe a few other things. Most everything you will need is there(plastic removal, etc.). Oops, no wiring diagrams. They must be a closly guarded secret or something. There are some loose on the net. It is done using pdf files, so it will work on a Mac.
Bruce C
 

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Using synthetic to extend your oil change intervals is a BAD idea.
Jerry, Write-on. I agree 100% with your 'philosophy'. I like to add up to 1 qt. of full syn. to my 20W50 just to give it a 'boost'. May increase mileage a bit too. Change interval of 3,000 mi. is the same though. I don't find an SG rated oil very often, mostly it's "exceeds SG" type of wording. Seems to me that this isn't the same as an SG oil.
 

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chrispat said:
Jerry, Write-on. I agree 100% with your 'philosophy'. I like to add up to 1 qt. of full syn. to my 20W50 just to give it a 'boost'. May increase mileage a bit too. Change interval of 3,000 mi. is the same though. I don't find an SG rated oil very often, mostly it's "exceeds SG" type of wording. Seems to me that this isn't the same as an SG oil.

I've heard that some of the diesel specific oils in the auto parts stores are API SG oils. Diesel trucks tend to run very long between changes but they have oil sumps measured in Gallons rather than quarts. I plan to investigate this at the next oil change. --Jerry
 

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Oil Changes and Lubes

Good stuff fellows. These are the types of threads I love to read. I like the tech issues for most anything, especially something I can relate to. I do like to do my own work for the reasons you all mentioned. Save a few dollars but mostly because you become familiar with your machine. Some day down the road all this self taught knowledge might come in handy, if not for your self maybe to help someone. So, that is good to know that using regular oil is fine and oils like Mobil 1 are not necessary.

Thank you
Ben
 

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Fluids changed.......

I have changed my oil once myself at about 3000 miles. It was a peice of cake. I am not sure what Mr. 007007 did wrong. First, I don't think he properly "warmed" the bike up as recommended, as this would have made it easier to remove drain plug. Plus, as far as I have been told, you are not supposed to change over to synthetic oil(s) until at least 10,000 miles ! . Also, a little hint, be very careful not to put in more than 3.3 qts. of oil, run bike a short time, and check "oil" window. It is VERY easy to OVERFILL this bike. It does NOT take a full 4qts. . I put in a total of possibly 3.5 qts. , and it was perfect. Overfilling does more damage than a bike that is somewhat low. You will eventually blow the seals and have a big headache then. Definately follow the rule book/owner's manual specs on tighteneing TORQUE specs !!. Maybe ought to let dealer do your work?. P.S. Do yourself a favor and use Castrol GTX oil (20/50w) at $2.29 a quart, instead of BMW oil at $4.99 a quart. (also, by the way, I am changing to synthetic oil at 10,000 miles, probably Castrol "Syntec" 20/50w).
 

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Fluid change(s) re-visited....

I'm sorry to offend you if I do , but, Mr. ChrisPat YOU SHOULD NEVER MIX ANY TYPE OF OIL IN COMBINATION WITH ANOTHER ! . You mentioned that you add a qt. of synthetic with your regular oil , oh boy. I am not a scientist. I am not an expert. I am not a mechanic. I have had several cars that ran OVER 150,000 miles starting with 6 cyl. Dodge and Plymouth motors, at least 12 bikes, all with hardly any engine problems. Plus, I have never used any additives such as STP, Marvel Mystery oil, or any gasoline additives in the winter months (fuel dryer). Tell you the truth, I once used "Sta-bil" in my bike, and the following Spring I had problems. One plug fouled out, and bike ran like crap for 200 miles or so. After 3-4 tankfulls of premium fuel, and a set of Bosch "platinum" plugs, the thing was a rocket.
 

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1200GTosprey said:
I'm sorry to offend you if I do , but, Mr. ChrisPat YOU SHOULD NEVER MIX ANY TYPE OF OIL IN COMBINATION WITH ANOTHER ! . .
These oil threads always get controversial. I agree that I wouldn't mix two oils but I think (my opinion only) that it probably wouldn't hurt anything. Oils have to be made to be compatible with each other for a variety of reasons. Recall that some oil manufacturers sell what they call a blend of dino and synthetic...

Cheers,
Jerry
 

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Stephejl said:
I've heard that some of the diesel specific oils in the auto parts stores are API SG oils. Diesel trucks tend to run very long between changes but they have oil sumps measured in Gallons rather than quarts. I plan to investigate this at the next oil change. --Jerry
Be a bit wary of diesel service oils. They can have higher detergent levels that will start to foam at high rpms. Diesels generally don't do rpm's above 4k, and gas engines now get up to 6.5/7K The K will red-line at 9k.
The high detergent was a concern in the '70's, so maybe they've been reformulated not to foam, but I'd ask.




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Not offended, but - mixing motor oils of the same viscosity is not a problem. In fact the synthetic blends available today are simply that.
I just happen to have some synthetic that I don't want to use "full strength". You see I had a bad experience, possibly similar to yours; so I don't really trust the seals to hold up to full synthetic. Obviously others don't have this problem and wouldn't agree with me.
BTW, Sta-Bil works just fine and I've used it in all of my motors for the winter, you really should give it a second try.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Re:Oil Change

It wasn't the oil change that gave me the problem I already did that, it was the transmission oil change and the differential oil change that gave me the trouble, 10,000 miles isn't really necessary these days as engines are more precision made and in fact some engines come from the factory with synthetic oil already in them and as for our K bikes the general consensus is that 6000 miles is a good time to change out your bike to synthetic, every thing I own and have owned uses synthetic oil and there is more then just a little difference between it and the dino stuff, I'm a little surprised to hear that anybody thinks other wise, synthetic will suspend particulate matter much better then petroleum oil and will not brake down nearly as fast as it's a little more purpose built and no matter how regular you are with petroleum oil changes and no matter how good a grade you get it will always leave behind a shellac all over you internal moving engine parts that is not good for it, I have an "82" Honda CX-500 Turbo with nearly 100,000 miles on it that I had to brake open to replace a stator in it and it has had synthetic oil in it since it was about 7000 miles old and the internals all still looked new and show no signs of wear what so ever, now if your motor burns or leaks oil then no I wouldn't use synthetic but all things being equal I'll never use petroleum oil for anything but brake in oil or to slop on my tools to keep them from rusting. As for the transmission, am I the only one that has ever found the drain plug WAY to tight for normal humans to undo? It had a complete warming up before I started and my wife's R1100S with the same transmission was just as equally over tight for hers as well so this can't be some random thing, I'm no weakling and I can undo some pretty stout stuff so I know these drain plugs are in the wrong place and to tight.
 

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After many years of riding and wrenching, I keep it very simple, although I am quite anal. My opinion only, and not preaching to anyone. Just sharing.

It's a motorcycle, so I use motorcycle oil. It's a BMW, so cost wasn't a major concern. So because it's an expensive bike to buy and repair, I don't worry about a few extra dollars for maintenance. I use BMW Full Synthetic oil in the engine and BMW Synthetic Gear Oil in the trans and rear drive. I change them at 3,000 and 6,000 miles respectively. For me, it's just paying a few dollars more for extra insurance & peace of mind. I also change them myself because it's easy (messy) and nobody will take more care than me.

Also, I've owned 10 BMW's, 5 oilheads and 4 KRS's, and my K1200S. I changed all of them to full synthetic long before 10,000 miles. I don't believe that mileage is the criterion. On BMW's, it's when the engine stops consuming oil. And it will stop consuming oil sooner if the engine is run harder. For example, my K1200RS has used full synthetic oil since 3,000 miles, uses an insignificant amount of oil between changes, and runs very strong (rev limiter in 6th gear!).

Does the bike require synthetic? Absolutely not. But there is no question in my mind that synthetic oil is better. It will not break down as quickly. Since I ride my bike hard, that gives me a feeling of security.
 

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Razel warned me about diesel oil foaming and I thought I remembered something about it too. So I did some reading. The last link above has almost more than anyone needs to know about oil. I think some of his conclusions are overly conservative but he's mostly talking about wet clutch bikes and that doesn't apply to us.

But I found this at Shell: http://rotella.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=169

Shell's lawyers wouldn't let them recommend Rotella for motorcycles if there was still a foming issue so it looks like that's what I'm going to to get (or some similar diesel oil). And I think SH is the optimal additive package so I'll look for SH but I'll accept SJ.

Cheers,
Jerry

PS I really liked the discussion in the about the API testing of oils that concludes that because of the expense and the controls on the testing and formulation, all API oils of the same S package and viscosity are basicly identical. The main difference is which Nascar has the logo painted on the hood.
 

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Oil

What a fantastic topic. I use mobil 1 15/50 on my engine and bmw synthetic 90/145 on my trany and rear drive. the mobil 1 rear end oil is to thin in book and be avoided. as for the location of drain who knows wat they were thinking :confused:
 
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