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Discussion Starter #1
My fast idle adjust is sticking. I sprayed some WD-40 on the lower pivot with no effect. Is there a return spring somewhere? There seems to be no easy way to access the cold start mechanism which is behind the throttle position switch. I can get the switch off but the switch mounting plate has two screws blocked by the fuel rail. I don't remember how to remove the injectors and there is a lot of dirt around them. Any advice on removing the mounting plate for the throttle switch?

Messing around has created another issue. Now the mc won't start. I think it is a fuel issue.I have fuel, have power, the starter cranks and the fuel pump is runnng. I suspect the fuel injectors are not firing. I did the following: removed the coil cover, disconnected the harness to the throttle position switch, removed the throttle position switch, disconnected one side of the crankcase breather hose, and removed a vacuum hose (?) from the rear injector. I put everything back. The vacuum line to the rear injector is very loose. I looked at one plug and it was dry. The fast idle light is working. Any advice on how to proceed here?
 

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PsyKotic Waterfowl
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Your post makes no sense.

Why would you disconnect the CCB hose?

Why would you want to take the mounting plate for the TPS off?

The vacuum hose connects to the rear THROTTLE BODY, not the fuel injector.

The "choke" can be adjusted via the locknut on the barrel of it where it connects to the TB assembly.

Did you correctly adjust the TPS when you put it back on?
 

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Injectors just pull out of there. Remove the rail then pull them out.

Mind you if there is a lot of crud there, should be removed first less it falls into the engine. And then that "Crud" may have caused corrosion and the O-rings may be stuck in there. If you can't rotate the injectors a little by hand even when mounted and everything in place, I'd say they are stuck. Just a little or a lot.....can be both. :yeow:

If the O-rings have failed,that would cause vacuum leaks and that may cause symptoms like you describe, high idle or takes a long time to go back down to normal. Same with all the rubber hoses controlling the fuel pressure regulator if the earlier models or the rubber bits sealing the throttle bodies for all of them, early and new.

If your bike has an O2 sensor, don't use sillycone products to free or reinstall any of the rubber parts that are fuel related.

Do you have a manual? I only have the early 100s and later 1200s here but both are pretty clear on the procedures to remove/install the fuel supply systems. :dunno:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
FlyingDuck said:
Your post makes no sense.
Hello to you also. The mc started and ran fine today at 23F. I suspect my issue was with the vacuum (?) line on the rear throttle body(?). That port is small and in a small space. I need to get a plumber's clamp or something on there.

Let me try again. The fast idle control on the left instrument cluster moves fine. With the fast idle off and the control in the off position, everything is fine. Moving the control pulls the cable and does whatever it does to increases the fuel mixture in that one throttle body/fuel injector combo. That is fine. The fast idle control of the instrument cluster can be moved back to the off position. At this point, it is no longer fine. The cable to the throttle body from the handlebar control does not retract. The fast idle remains. The only way to turn off the fast idle is to take a screwdriver to the end of the cable which is located behind the throttle position switch and push it to the off position. So, the problem is the cable is not retracting. That leaves four sources for the problem: the control on the cluster, the cable, the cable adjustment (wherever that is) and the lever on the throttle body. Right or wrong, my first guess is that it is the lever the cable is activating.

FlyingDuck said:
Why would you disconnect the CCB hose?
Because what is sticking appears to be the lever on the throttle body at the end of the cable. I cant see it because it is behind the throttle position sensor. Removing the rear screw holding the throttle position sensor is easier if you move the CCB hose out of the way.

FlyingDuck said:
Why would you want to take the mounting plate for the TPS off?
So that I can see how the cable attaches to the lever on the throttle body and whether that is the source of the problem.

FlyingDuck said:
The vacuum hose connects to the rear THROTTLE BODY, not the fuel injector.
OK, I admit I am an idiot when it comes to fuel injection. The throttle body/ injector unit is a magic black box to me. It does what it does. I dont really care as long as it does what it is suppose to. I will take some time in the future to sort that out.

FlyingDuck said:
The "choke" can be adjusted via the locknut on the barrel of it where it connects to the TB assembly.
I need to take a closer look at that. That might be the source of my problem. I will do that first. That will also tell me if the cable has stretched.

FlyingDuck said:
Did you correctly adjust the TPS when you put it back on?
I was worried about that. How do you adjust that? The only thing I see to do is to twist the sensor using the slots for the screws. And how do you know when you have it right?

Thanks for the help.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
H96669 said:
Injectors just pull out of there. Remove the rail then pull them out.

Mind you if there is a lot of crud there, should be removed first less it falls into the engine. And then that "Crud" may have caused corrosion and the O-rings may be stuck in there. If you can't rotate the injectors a little by hand even when mounted and everything in place, I'd say they are stuck. Just a little or a lot.....can be both. :yeow:
I suspect mine are stuck. I really dont want to force them out. That means more self-inflicted damage to repair.

H96669 said:
If the O-rings have failed,that would cause vacuum leaks and that may cause symptoms like you describe, high idle or takes a long time to go back down to normal. Same with all the rubber hoses controlling the fuel pressure regulator if the earlier models or the rubber bits sealing the throttle bodies for all of them, early and new.
Definitely a cable related issue.



H96669 said:
Do you have a manual? I only have the early 100s and later 1200s here but both are pretty clear on the procedures to remove/install the fuel supply systems. :dunno:
I have the Clymer

I may just pull the cable and forget about the handlebar control. If I am correctly understanding how the fast idle works, I should be able to duplicate it using the throttle and a throttle lock.

Thanks for the help.
 

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A good set of Vacuum gauges may help a lot if you need to diagnose vacuum leaks. That is before they drive you crazy trying to find exactly where they are without dismantling.

There is also a procedure to balance them throttle bodies with such gauges but obviously can't work if there are leaks.

Also, the fuel pressure regulator on them works with vacuum,any leaks and that can affect fuel delivery. May leak cold and as the engine warms up things expand and the leaks disappear.....drives you crazy. Been there....! :(
 

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Discussion Starter #8
H96669 said:
A good set of Vacuum gauges ma help a lot if you need to diagnose vacuum leaks. That is before they drive you crazy trying to find exactly where they are without dismantling.
How does that work? I just bought the Motion Pro SyncPro, a 4 port nonmercury vacuum gauge. I plan to learn how to sync my throttle bodies. I know the K100 is way overdue. Anyone have a guide to using a vacuum gauge to trace leaks?

H96669 said:
There is also a procedure to balance them throttle bodies with such gauges but obviously can't work if there are leaks.
Luckily, I have a friend with a K75 who understands the syncing process. So, the learning curve there is not very steep.

H96669 said:
Also, the fuel pressure regulator on them works with vacuum,any leaks and that can affect fuel delivery. May leak cold and as the engine warms up things expand and the leaks disappear.....drives you crazy. Been there....! :(
My K75 had that problem. Had a very unpleasant ride to Roswell out of silver country in the snow due to that. Ran fine above 50F; ran horribly around 32F. Never did find that leak. So far the K100 has been good. Only leak issue has been the CCB hose.

Once we get a stretch of 50 degree weather here, I plan to sync the TBs.
 

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Plug them gauges in you'll see. Different bike maybe but sure was getting an erratical reading on one cylinder. Even if they differ they should be pretty stable at idle. No quick oscillations of the needles. And then sync so they are even.

Handy things them gauges, may even tell you how good your valves are.Long even deflections of the needle at each stroke aren't good news if there aren't any vacuum leaks. We used to time car engines back then with just that a single vacuum gauge, within a degree or so of the specs. :)
 

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Are you just flailing here?

"My fast idle adjust is sticking. I sprayed some WD-40 on the lower pivot with no effect. Is there a return spring somewhere? "

Either replace the cable or lube the cable in the sheath. WD40 is not much of a lubricant BTW. MCN did an indepth analysis of an excellent cable lube in this month's issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
FlyingDuck said:
If you have a vacuum leak then you won't be able to sync the TBs.

Another way to diagnose leaky boots below the TBs is to spray some starter fluid down there when the bike is idling. If the idle goes up......
I saw a posting where Don Eilenberger recommended carb cleaner OUTSIDE IN SMALL CONTROLLED SPRAYS WITH A FIRE EXTINGUISHER. My vacuum leak isn't mysterious. It is the vacuum line on the rear throttle body. The problem is finding a clamp that fits on that hose. I can't find a small enough worm gear clamp. I going to try a round wire hose clamp next. The zip tie approach failed. I really dont want to buy a new vacuum line. That means removing the tank and airbox. The tank is easy. I havent done the airbox.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
H96669 said:
Plug them gauges in you'll see. Different bike maybe but sure was getting an erratical reading on one cylinder. Even if they differ they should be pretty stable at idle. No quick oscillations of the needles. And then sync so they are even.

Handy things them gauges, may even tell you how good your valves are.Long even deflections of the needle at each stroke aren't good news if there aren't any vacuum leaks. We used to time car engines back then with just that a single vacuum gauge, within a degree or so of the specs. :)
My gauge doesnt have dials, just the tubes. But I get the drift.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Beemer01 said:
"My fast idle adjust is sticking. I sprayed some WD-40 on the lower pivot with no effect. Is there a return spring somewhere? "

Either replace the cable or lube the cable in the sheath. WD40 is not much of a lubricant BTW. MCN did an indepth analysis of an excellent cable lube in this month's issue.
That thought had occurred to me. I havent lubed that cable. The WD40 was just a quick test to wash out any grit that might have been causing the arm to stick. I am fairly confident it is the arm on the TB. Replacing the cable wont help with that. I will look at it again tomorrow. Probably going to pull the cable out and forget about it.

I suspect the fast idle adjust was put on only because riders coming from carbed mcs expected a separate choke adjust. As we all know, there is no choke with fuel injection. I suspect the fast idle advance does the same thing as the throttle except only for one throttle body instead of for four. If so, you probably dont need it. I may be totally wrong about that. Would be nice for a FI guru to verify that.
 

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Wonder why you can't find clamps? Small enough as in what size? I know Beemer Boneyard has the small fuel injection clamps for fuel line vents. 6 or 9 mm???? Fuel line are 13-15mm or straight 15s will do. If mine show up today I'll remember what size they were.

You don't want the worm style clamps as in regular hose clamps, they can cut in the rubber and damage hoses. Fuel injection clamps is what you need.

But even the local garage here in the boonies has them in his master kit. Small enough that shop to also be the post office :teeth .....If mine show up I'll open the package there and look at his kit. :dunno:

Good you get the drift on engine analyzing with the Vacuum gauges, or even just a single gauge, does the same. Can't balance or erratical readings....on to more troubleshooting.

I still have my old mercury tube ones, collecting dust but will get plugged on my K1200RS in the near future, I don't like the starter fluids/propane tests, way too hard to get the flammables behind my throttle bodies. But already have lots of fire extinguishers, had to use one of them a few years back on a weed whacker. Sure makes a mess in the shop even if I had training with them, as in how to direct them properly..... :rotf:

The sticky part well....I had a throttle plate coming loose and starting to bind a little from the marks inside the throttle body. My bike doesn't have a manual cable but still.....worth looking at if just in case, you don't want the engine to swallow one of them little screws. :wtf: And I am not the only one who found such a loose screw..... :teeth
 

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PsyKotic Waterfowl
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97tiger885 said:
I saw a posting where Don Eilenberger recommended carb cleaner OUTSIDE IN SMALL CONTROLLED SPRAYS WITH A FIRE EXTINGUISHER. My vacuum leak isn't mysterious. It is the vacuum line on the rear throttle body. The problem is finding a clamp that fits on that hose. I can't find a small enough worm gear clamp. I going to try a round wire hose clamp next. The zip tie approach failed. I really dont want to buy a new vacuum line. That means removing the tank and airbox. The tank is easy. I havent done the airbox.
I've done it a bunch of times with starter fluid. The only sparks are occurring in the cylinders so there isn't much chance of a fire.

If you're paranoid about a fire then the other approach is to spray a fine water mist down there. If any gets in then the idle will slow.

You don't need hose clamps on a VACUUM line. And you don't need to buy the line from BMW. Generic line from the auto parts store works just fine. (What I have on my 75.)

Accessing the FPR isn't all that hard.

1) Remove air filter. (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,1050.0.html)

2) Through the hole in the bottom of the air box remove the two 6mm Allen bolts that hold the bottom half to the engine block

3) Turn the bottom half about 45 degrees clockwise looking down at it.

4) Wrassle (I used that word on purpose) the bottom half of the airbox out.

Now you have access to the FPR. IMO messing with the top half is just extra work.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
It's the hard way now.

I took a closer look at the rear vacuum line. It needs to be replaced. This is for an 85 K100RS. Off with the air box. First time for that. Figure I should replace all the lines while I have the chance. That means the two FI fuel lines, the two FI vacuum lines and the two fuel tank vent lines. Anything else I should do while I have the fuel tank and air box off? This will give me a chance to put on the quick disconnects I have. Anything special about any of these lines that I need to order from Bob's or can I get this stuff at a local auto parts store? I dont want to be down too long. MC #1 is a 97 Tiger and it is tough to start in cold weather.
 

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PsyKotic Waterfowl
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Instead of replacingt the two vent lines you might want to consider doing this: http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,989.0.html

You'll probably want to replace all three fuel lines:

Tank to fuel rail
Fuel rail to FPR
FPR to tank

Three feet of 5/16 fuel line will do the trick. Make sure you get fuel line that is pressure rated for FI systems.

The fuel line connections to the FPR are one-use Oetiker clamps. Order two of the 13mm fuel line clamps to replace them.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
FlyingDuck said:
I've done it a bunch of times with starter fluid. The only sparks are occurring in the cylinder so there isn't much chance of a fire.

If you're paranoid about a fire then the other approach is to spray a fine water mist down there. If any gets in then the idle will slow.

You don't need hose clamps on a VACUUM line. And you don't need to buy the line from BMW. Generic line from the auto parts store works just fine. (What I have on my 75.)

Accessing the FPR isn't all that hard.

Now you have access to the FPR. IMO messing with the top half is just extra work.
Good info. Thanks. I decided to pull the top half for better visibility and work space. I took more pictures than are used in the motobrick piece. I will post an account just for fun.
 
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